Polaris Appreciation III

[Emerald_616]

That's why I hope he hangs on to her after Breaking Points, because he will at least keep her characterization consistent and not retcon her parentage b/c Brevoort is not editing his book.

[salarta]

Replying to Venomous Mask here, don't want to quote all of what he said.

I first want to say I'm very pleased that Linkara spoke up about his views on One More Day, instead of following his earlier vow to never review it. He raised a lot damn good points not just about how bad One More Day was, but also all the things very wrong with the company as a whole.

Thanks for giving a more thorough response about the history of the Spider-Man books for someone like me that has never read them and has no desire to do so. That's meant to be completely genuine, I'm stating that outright in case it sounds sarcastic when I in no way mean it that way. :)

You're right about the death aspect, and it's not just Marvel, but DC Comics too. Killing off characters is one of the most idiotic things these companies keep doing. By having so many characters die, they cheapen the worth of characters dying at all. But more importantly, it's part of the problem of superficial, temporary change that's entirely empty. Writing that's actually good would be able to craft meaningful stories that don't require character deaths just for the sake of shock value. That's not to say characters dying should never be done, but most of the time Marvel and DC do it for shock, not for substance. It's especially stupid to pull because they're essentially telling fans of those characters to stop reading their comics.

As far as Magneto himself, I want to see him step out of Cyclops' shadow (who would have thought we would ever be saying that) and re-establish himself as the fucking OG boss he used to be. The only way for this to happen is to turn him villain again and re-establish the Brotherhood

No, that isn't necessary. There are many ways to do that without Magneto suddenly turned into a villain again. In fact, Marvel had a damn fine way of making Magneto a big character and a force to be reckoned with back in the early 00s: leader of Genosha. While he was there, he was a multi-faceted character. He had both actions that could be construed as villainous and as heroic, depending on perspective. With proper writing and continuation, Genosha and Magneto leading it could have been exactly what Marvel acts like they want Civil War to be seen as: a political allegory where perspective is the key element to whether something is right or wrong.

Instead, Genosha was wiped out.

[Mitteloss]

Obviously her parentage is one very high profile proverbial soccer ball.

But, her basic characterization is the soccer ball kicked back and forth the most. From 2000 to 2005 for the most part other then a few issues it felt like a natural evolution of the character. That natural evolution felt like it fell apart in 2006 and 2007 (Milligan decided to make her looney in What Lorna Saw instead of how her mental problems were depicted in the past), but it really went off the rails as Brubaker returned her pretty much completely to late 70s Lorna for 12 issues of Uncanny.

Yost tried to find a middle ground between her Brubaker characterization and her characterization earlier in the decade, but overall I would say he leaned more towards her 70s characterization other then in one or two issues. DnA then took over and other then in battle moved her depiction more towards a more stable version of 2003 Lorna.

When Carey wrote her he basically wrote her character and her non-brainwashed interaction with Magneto like it was in early 2000. PAD has so far at least in the road trip tried to mix the personality of the Lorna of his X-Factor era with the Lorna of the Austen era. I think its a good choice trying to weave together the two most popular depictions of the character with Lorna fans.

I disagree with PAD- I think there has been an natural evolution and progression to Lorna's character- I think we could see it since 1991 up to 2005 particularly.

Only once Milligan took over did the backlash among some fans to Austen's depiction of Lorna influenced Milligan to soften his approach to Lorna. Making her more unstable but also a weaker character. He turned it around in X-Men #187- and her scenes here certainly felt like character development- though simply from the start of his run.

And once Brubaker took over with Uncanny all continuity in her characterization went out of the window... from here I think PAD can say that things got messy with how writers depicted her. I do think though that her behaviour and reaction in Emperor Vulcan #5 was a reference to the fact that Lorna was now a more solidly stronger, resilient person than she used to be and things seemed to have generally stayed this way since then. Though both DnA and PAD have seemed to cleverly bring out her more candid, savvy aspects of her personality she had from 2000-2005. So things are going in the right direction, but I agree with PAD here that from now on he needs to continue writing her more solidly and coherently to properly establish her personality.

[jmc247]

I disagree with PAD- I think there has been an natural evolution and progression to Lorna's character- I think we could see it since 1991 up to 2005 particularly.

Only once Milligan took over did the backlash among some fans to Austen's depiction of Lorna influenced Milligan to soften his approach to Lorna. Making her more unstable but also a weaker character. He turned it around in X-Men #187- and her scenes here certainly felt like character development- though simply from the start of his run.

And once Brubaker took over with Uncanny all continuity in her characterization went out of the window... from here I think PAD can say that things got messy with how writers depicted her. I do think though that her behaviour and reaction in Emperor Vulcan #5 was a reference to the fact that Lorna was now a more solidly stronger, resilient person than she used to be and things seemed to have generally stayed this way since then. Though both DnA and PAD have seemed to cleverly bring out her more candid, savvy aspects of her personality she had from 2000-2005. So things are going in the right direction, but I agree with PAD here that from now on he needs to continue writing her more solidly and coherently to properly establish her personality.

There was some unevenness in her characterization even in the X-Factor years, but I agree at least from 1991-2005 it was mostly a consistent evolution with events in her life being the reason for a change in the character over time. That went out the window in 2006 and she was changed simply because of nostalgia and to try to appease fans yelling looney Lorna which to put it bluntly caused a massive mess.

Hopefully the character can be put on a consistent track again in that regard and I also hope that PAD sees the aspects of her early 2000s personality that help the character to be interesting and stand out. I think its clear at a number of levels he does given what we saw on the road trip.

[blanchett]

For those that love the kill-happy Polaris 241 is your issue.

[.A²]

And a diegetic reference to the Polaris/Magneto connection to boot. See how PAD spoils you!

[jmc247]

I was going to wait until 3 or 4PM to go to the comic shop, but your post moved up my timeline Blanchett. I picked it up and read it and it seems that PAD is setting up a conflict between the members of X-Factor willing to kill threats (Polaris) and those with no morality at all (Strong Guy) and the others.

But, yes I like that PAD unlike certain other writers hasn't forgotten/ignored that Lorna has a different philosophy on dealing with dangerous threats then mainline X-Men/X-Factor.

[blanchett]

I was going to wait until 3 or 4PM to go to the comic shop, but your post moved up my timeline Blanchett. I picked it up and read it and it seems that PAD is setting up a conflict between the members of X-Factor willing to kill threats (Polaris) and those with no morality at all (Strong Guy) and the others.

But, yes I like that PAD unlike certain other writers hasn't forgotten that Lorna has a different philosophy on dealing with dangerous threats then mainline X-Men/X-Factor.

Sorry it's about 8 here. Sometimes I just don't think about the time difference in other time zones. It was on comixology when I got home from work today. I think it might cause a bit of conflict between her and Havok actually. That last panel where he looked back....I thought it might be implying something.

[Mitteloss]

That... kicked ass. I actually like where PAD is going with Lorna!! I'm looking forward to reading this.

This was very similar to the scene in X-Men: Emperor Vulcan #5.

There was some unevenness in her characterization even in the X-Factor years, but I agree at least from 1991-2005 it was mostly a consistent evolution with events in her life being the reason for a change in the character over time. That went out the window in 2006 and she was changed simply because of nostalgia and to try to appease fans yelling looney Lorna which to put it bluntly caused a massive mess.

Hopefully the character can be put on a consistent track again in that regard and I also hope that PAD sees the aspects of her early 2000s personality that help the character to be interesting and stand out. I think its clear at a number of levels he does given what we saw on the road trip.

And with the latest issue! I am very pleased with that scene.

Anyone have any thoughts about where Lorna currently stands with AvX?

[jmc247]

That... kicked ass. I actually like where PAD is going with Lorna!! I'm looking forward to reading this.

This was very similar to the scene in X-Men: Emperor Vulcan #5.

It was really kick ass scene I hope PAD keeps it up with her, I would say it was a merger of Lorna who turned the Purifiers type weapons on each other early last decade and her from EV #5. It something I view as important to seperate her from say Jean Gray, Rogue, or most of the other X-Men.

Sorry it's about 8 here. Sometimes I just don't think about the time difference in other time zones. It was on comixology when I got home from work today. I think it might cause a bit of conflict between her and Havok actually. That last panel where he looked back....I thought it might be implying something.

Its fine, I only took a cursory glance at it. I didn't even see her parentage was referenced in what you posted. Its the first time its been referenced by another character other then her family since Austen left.

[Cassius]

Always tried to get into her character, never knew where to start. Nice thread.

[jmc247]

And with the latest issue! I am very pleased with that scene.

Anyone have any thoughts about where Lorna currently stands with AvX?

AvX #9 was sold out at my store. Anyway a violent split is coming between Emma and Scott that one could see happening a mile away. If she is in future issues I expect her along with Magneto to side with Scott against Emma. Though I am not so sure she will show up again. I think they are setting Scott up as a Jesus Christ like figure as Axel called him 4 years ago who will give his life to save the world... of course leading Havok to step into his shoes on the Uncanny Avengers... at least until Scott is resurrected in a few years.

[Champagne]

AvX #9 was sold out at my store. Anyway a violent split is coming between Emma and Scott that one could see happening a mile away. If she is in future issues I expect her along with Magneto to side with Scott against Emma. Though I am not so sure she will show up again. I think they are setting Scott up as a Jesus Christ like figure as Axel called him 4 years ago who will give his life to save the world... of course leading Havok to step into his shoes on the Uncanny Avengers... at least until Scott is resurrected in a few years.

What I don't like about AvX, is that they are hardly giving Magneto the role he deserves. Sure, in UXM, he's acting as one of the three main still-sane X-Men trying to stop the P5-- but what happened just a crossover ago when he'd risk his life to save his daughter, the Scarlet Witch? When Scott ordered an attack on Wanda, Erik sided with him like it's no problem? Speaking of Lorna's side in the whole AvX ordeal, I think she'd be on whichever side is the "good" side. I also kind of hope for more Lorna and Wanda interactions.

[Mitteloss]

AvX #9 was sold out at my store. Anyway a violent split is coming between Emma and Scott that one could see happening a mile away. If she is in future issues I expect her along with Magneto to side with Scott against Emma. Though I am not so sure she will show up again. I think they are setting Scott up as a Jesus Christ like figure as Axel called him 4 years ago who will give his life to save the world... of course leading Havok to step into his shoes on the Uncanny Avengers... at least until Scott is resurrected in a few years.

I assume if Storm was still in the Utopia X-Men- so was Lorna. And therefore so is Lorna... alongside Magneto, Psylocke and Havok??

[salarta]

I'm glad that in the comic itself, Peter David actually does openly refer to Lorna as daughter of Magneto there, not "alleged" daughter. Especially if he personally doesn't like the change, because being able to write it while not personally liking it is a sign of professionalism. I don't want to say that ensures good things on the horizon, because doing so would make me feel like an idiot if it turned out my sudden faith was entirely misplaced. But I will say that it does make me think better of him, and I hope the impressions given there continue to pan out.

Always tried to get into her character, never knew where to start. Nice thread.

WELCOME! Always glad to see new people interested in Lorna and her massive amounts of potential. I hope Marvel gives you plenty of reason to get more into Lorna and their comics, just as I hope they do so for me. :)