Polaris Appreciation III

[Mitteloss]

Well it looks like there's certainly some sort of movement towards her origins story finally being told. Like others here- I just hope that it takes past continuity into account as that's vital (the 616/HoM Susanna Dane story) for it to make sense even as a comic book a storyline. But we don't really know what will happen :S

I'm not expecting anything big regarding Lorna and Alex's appearance in AvX- I'm expecting a prominent background cameo- enough to show off Coipel's amazing depiction of them atleast! :D Not sure there will be much, if any, interaction given what Nick Lowe said.

I don't see why Lorna can't keep a street level outfit when going about daily tasks and daily life and something like her origional or current outfit as wear for coming up against big threats.

The alternating idea is nice- personally I hope they modify her current outfit to appear similar to Scarlet Witches capeless 90's costume around the time of Onslaught- that would be a nice balance.

[juan678]

Lorna in X-Factor 235? Only in a page see in X-POSITION: David Investigates "X-Factor," Relationships, & "AvX"

[blanchett]

Well it looks like there's certainly some sort of movement towards her origins story finally being told. Like others here- I just hope that it takes past continuity into account as that's vital (the 616/HoM Susanna Dane story) for it to make sense even as a comic book a storyline. But we don't really know what will happen :S

I'm not expecting anything big regarding Lorna and Alex's appearance in AvX- I'm expecting a prominent background cameo- enough to show off Coipel's amazing depiction of them atleast! :D Not sure there will be much, if any, interaction given what Nick Lowe said.



The alternating idea is nice- personally I hope they modify her current outfit to appear similar to Scarlet Witches capeless 90's costume around the time of Onslaught- that would be a nice balance.

The issue I have with Susanna Dane is that she doesn't work with 616 continuity. Dane is Lorna's adoptive surname. Her biological mother couldn't have been called Susanna Dane. The circumstances that Magneto met Susanna in House of M couldn't work for 616 as canon states that Prof X was the first mutant that Magneto met, that he at least knew was a mutant. She couldn't have been helping him smuggle mutants, it's not possible. Magneto would have had to meet Lorna's mother a few years before Xavier, 2-4 tops.

[jmc247]

The issue I have with Susanna Dane is that she doesn't work with 616 continuity. Dane is Lorna's adoptive surname. Her biological mother couldn't have been called Susanna Dane. The circumstances that Magneto met Susanna in House of M couldn't work for 616 as canon states that Prof X was the first mutant that Magneto met, that he at least knew was a mutant. She couldn't have been helping him smuggle mutants, it's not possible. Magneto would have had to meet Lorna's mother a few years before Xavier, 2-4 tops.

Wanda messed with the timeline and made sure there was alot more mutants in the HoM universe that had their x-gene activated and condensed and altered the timeline so Magneto was a baby in 1945 instead of being a teenager in 616 reality and the main events in CW HoM happened in the 1970s as you can tell regarding it being during Nixon's Presidency.

A backstory with Susanna Dane if it was to be told in the 616 therefore would be quite different. However, from a biological prospective in order for Magneto's DNA to combine with Susanna Dane's and make Lorna in one universe and not another that would mean Lorna's mother in the 616 universe would have to have the exact same millions of strands of DNA, but yet be someone else. Wanda could change Susanna's name and circumstances that led to her personality, but not the genetic code that combined with Magneto's to make Lorna.

[blanchett]

Wanda messed with the timeline and made sure there was alot more mutants in the HoM universe that had their x-gene activated and condensed and altered the timeline so Magneto was a baby in 1945 instead of being a teenager in 616 reality and the main events in CW HoM happened in the 1970s as you can tell regarding it being during Nixon's Presidency.

A backstory with Susanna Dane if it was to be told in the 616 therefore would be quite different. However, from a biological prospective in order for Magneto's DNA to combine with Susanna Dane's and make Lorna in one universe and not another that would mean Lorna's mother in the 616 universe would have to have the exact same millions of strands of DNA, but yet be someone else. Wanda could change Susanna's name and circumstances that led to her personality, but not the genetic code that combined with Magneto's to make Lorna.

Wanda had complete control of reality she could do whatever she wanted. She's not bound by the kind of things your implying there. Besides there's were significant anomalies in House of M. Look at Rachel Summers, how did she fit in, or Nocturne.

Susanna Dane as she was, didn't strike me as particularly interesting either.

[jmc247]

Wanda had complete control of reality she could do whatever she wanted. She's not bound by the kind of things your implying there. Besides there's were significant anomalies in House of M. Look at Rachel Summers, how did she fit in, or Nocturne.

Susanna Dane as she was, didn't strike me as particularly interesting either.

If you read what I said Wanda could alter alot about her personality and history, but she would still genetically have to be the same. Basic genetics 101 is two parents with opposite genetic codes merge to produce a new entity with half the genes of each parent. Lorna's mother in the 616 or HoM universe could be vastly different personality wise with very different histories, but genetically that would have to be the same to produce Lorna.

[blanchett]

If you read what I said Wanda could alter alot about her personality and history, but she would still genetically have to be the same. Basic genetics 101 is two parents with opposite genetic codes merge to produce a new entity with half the genes of each parent. Lorna's mother in the 616 or HoM universe could be vastly different personality wise with very different histories, but genetically that would have to be the same to produce Lorna.

Not necessarily. House of M was an altered version of Earth 616, whose to say the prequels even technically happened? They could very well have been like the Age of X prequels, merely telling the stories from Magneto's, and Lorna's constructed memories.

[jmc247]

Not necessarily. House of M was an altered version of Earth 616, whose to say the prequels even technically happened? They could very well have been like the Age of X prequels, merely telling the stories from Magneto's, and Lorna's constructed memories.

Constructed memories? I have every issue of HoM (80 something in all) other then one Thunderbolts HoM issue and it was made very clear that history itself was altered. Look I am giving you that the character that we saw as Susanna Dane could be extremely different in the 616 universe, hell she could even have a different name though that would cause more confusion then its worth as fans have been getting to know Susanna Dane as their template for Lorna's mother over the past four years. But, I am not willing to take the step that genetically her mother could be Mystique or any women not genetically 100% the same as the character we got to know in CW HoM.

[blanchett]

Constructed memories? I have every issue of HoM (80 something in all) other then one Thunderbolts HoM issue and it was made very clear that history itself was altered. Look I am giving you that the character that we saw as Susanna Dane could be extremely different in the 616 universe, hell she could even have a different name though that would cause more confusion then its worth as fans have been getting to know Susanna Dane as their template for Lorna's mother over the past four years. But, I am not willing to take the step that genetically her mother could be Mystique or any women not genetically 100% the same as the character we got to know in CW HoM.

Yes but it's not a reality that diverged from 616 in the past like the Age of Apocalypse, Wanda constructed this reality. She made the rules. Magneto also wasn't a child in WW2, she changed that too. She didn't birth Nocturne but she was still running around.

She could absolutely make an entirely different mother for Polaris if she wished. Besides Susanna Dane contradicts and confuses Lorna's background in 616 and considering she appeared on what two pages, she's a throwaway character at best. Unless you read CW Hom, it confuses nothing.

[jmc247]

Yes but it's not a reality that diverged from 616 in the past like the Age of Apocalypse, Wanda constructed this reality. She made the rules. Magneto also wasn't a child in WW2, she changed that too. She didn't birth Nocturne but she was still running around.

She could absolutely make an entirely different mother for Polaris if she wished. Besides Susanna Dane contradicts and confuses Lorna's background in 616 and considering she appeared on what two pages, she's a throwaway character at best. Unless you read CW Hom, it confuses nothing.

Nocturne entered the HoM universe via another universe. And, no I don't agree at all regarding Susanna Dane and it contradicting anything as point, but this line of discussion is getting nowhere and that is my last post of the week on the topic. You win, I don't have the time or energy to debate the issue again right now.

[blanchett]

Nocturne entered the HoM universe via another universe. And, no I don't agree at all regarding Susanna Dane and it contradicting anything as point, but this line of discussion is getting nowhere and that is my last post of the week on the topic. You win, I don't have the time or energy to debate the issue again right now.

Lorna was adopted by her "father's" sister and her husband. Her "aunts" marital name is Dane. Lorna didn't know she was adopted till she was adult. If she had a different surname to her adoptive parents she would have tweaked that something was up. The only way that Lorna's biological could be a Dane is by marriage. It's possible that Lorna's aunt kept her maiden name after she married, then Lorna's mother marital surname could have been Dane. And if it was, it means that Magneto in his late 50s or early 60s slept with a 20 year old married woman living in Paris, on her own with one possibly child back in the states....that's very complicated and it certainly doesn't reflect well on him.

And to further drum home my point about how Susanna Dane need not be Lorna's mother look at Sabretooth. In the X-Men Forever universe. Sabretooth is the father of Wolverine. This has been directly contradicted in Jason Aaron's run it's completely impossible. He was also implied to be the father of Nightcrawler in the Age of Apocalypse reality, directly contradicted by the Draco. In the Noir universe, Rogue was a Rankin. In the Ultimate universe, Wanda and Pietro's mother was originally a woman named Isabelle, later changed to Magda, but who knows if that's true. The Days of the Future Past Wolverine is part Moon Boy. Wolverine is Ultimate Cable. There's a reality in the Exiles series where Mystique was a man and fathered Rogue. You can't use canon from an alternate reality to prove something in 616. Also Wanda never met Lorna's mother. Those ones are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more incidents like this.
As far as I'm concerned Susanna Dane is just a construct that Wanda made because she didn't know the true story.

[bongy]

As far as I'm concerned Susanna Dane is just a construct that Wanda made because she didn't know the true story.

All good points, but I thought during HoM, Wanda was able to tap into Xavier's telepathy to know what to give everyone. So, isn't it possible she used her powers plus Xavier's to read Magneto's mind to find out about Susanna? That's what I always assumed.

[blanchett]

All good points, but I thought during HoM, Wanda was able to tap into Xavier's telepathy to know what to give everyone. So, isn't it possible she used her powers plus Xavier's to read Magneto's mind to find out about Susanna? That's what I always assumed.

Well what Magneto wanted, as it was put across to us was for mutants to rule he got that. If Wanda was going to give him what he really wanted I would assume his father, mother, uncle, sister and daughter wouldn't have been killed. His wife would have stayed with him etc. I would say that rather than reading Magneto's mind to find out what Magneto really wanted, Wanda assumed based on her established view of him as a genetic supremacist.

[jmc247]

Lorna was adopted by her "father's" sister and her husband. Her "aunts" marital name is Dane

And, we know that because the 'Dane's said so' and as I explained before they had reason to lie as they did in the past to Lorna and I am well aware Marvel in alternate universes have gone wild having everything from characters that are a mix of characters and whatnot. But, like you have a huge problem with 'realism' and Lorna and Crystal's scene in WoK. I have as huge problem when they screw around with notions that X parent and Y parent create Z child. No, C parent and Y parent can also create Z child. That only works in my view in any kind of reality if X parent and C parent are genetically the same.

But, I already said I planned on ending it and it continues... sigh.

[blanchett]

Well your not the chair here, Jmc247 we can continue discussing whatever we want. Besides the "Dane said so" is very weak defense. The very premise of House of M as a constructed reality with the amount of alterations Wanda made to that reality means nothing in it can be taken as proof for 616. Now they could very well try and make it work....because they would probably need Wanda in story to contradict the Susanna stuff, otherwise it's a dangler...we'll see.