Polaris Appreciation III

[Siena Blaze]

Lorna has skull earings in that one pic.

Both of those pics look like they are designed out of the 1920s era.

I love that detail. She loves those skull accessories.

[Ingonyama]

I never got the skulls. Why are they there? They seem completely at odds with Lorna's character, except when she was crazy...ironically, IIRC there was nary a skull to be found anywhere on her person during Austen's run.

[salarta]

I never got the skulls. Why are they there? They seem completely at odds with Lorna's character, except when she was crazy...ironically, IIRC there was nary a skull to be found anywhere on her person during Austen's run.

The skull is actually something that goes all the way back to her origins as a character. Does it have a deep significance? No. Was it part of her original outfit? Yep, it definitely was.



I didn't even have to dig for that image, it was on the first page of Google search results for "Polaris X-men." And when I say that, I mean it as in it's considered important enough to her origins that a panel from back then appears immediately in the results.

I like the skull a lot, and I think it should return. I do not think it's trivial to note that about when Lorna was getting repeatedly downgraded into a nobody by Claremont, the skull completely disappeared from her attire. Skulls project a certain element of power, and strength, because they're symbolic of death. Strength and power are both things Lorna lost more of every time Claremont wrote anything that used her since the 70s, and to this day any time she makes advances in that area, some nostalgic writer or editor obsessed with the past forces her back to how Claremont wrote her. It may not be absolutely necessary to have the skull in her design, but it would definitely be a big plus for her to be allowed to have it back; through design, perhaps editors and writers would be able to acknowledge Lorna as her own character worthy of her own thoughts and interests. It's not like Marvel has an excuse of making comics safe for kids anymore when you have a character driving around on a motorcycle with a flaming skull for a head riding into theaters this year.

[jmc247]

I never got the skulls. Why are they there? They seem completely at odds with Lorna's character, except when she was crazy...ironically, IIRC there was nary a skull to be found anywhere on her person during Austen's run.

Considering its her first costume which is still her most iconic by far had a skull and she wore it from when she first appeared and then on and off for the rest of the 60s and 70s its shouldn't be too hard to understand why its iconic with alot of Polaris fans. Heck I would say almost half the Polaris fan made outfits at Comic Cons wear the skull.

Of course the 60s and 70s were not the only time the character wore a skull. She wore a bigger one in 2000.



She was never insane in any appearence she wore the skull in. Why did she wear it? Well you just have to ask yourself what is the most common message people take away from seeing a skull... the answer I suspect would be warning/danger. Lorna most of the time would perfer not to get into fights and the skull is effectively a danger warning to potental foes.

Austen's Lorna lets just say I don't think she would have cared for a danger warning to foes. Its much easier to just pull the pins on a bunch of religious fanatics grenades with a wave of her hand or turn their bullets around to where they came from. She was trying to avoid fights by wearing the skull in other eras in that era she was trying to rid the world of threats so there was a mindset difference.

[salarta]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like about this line of discussion. I honestly hadn't really thought about the purpose of the skull in her wardrobe much before today, I just noted it could have symbolism, that it doesn't have deep story significance, and that it was there in the beginning.

Let's keep going with this discussion, perhaps other elements of her wardrobe that are/were major for her and what their significance could be if we took more time to look at it. :)

[Mitteloss]

I like your rationale for why Lorna might wear a skull. It makes sense.

You know, as much as I love her costumes... I think her recent space era costume shows far too much skin. I think the top is far too low cut, and to put it bluntly, shows too much of her breasts. It just reeks of sexism, especially when you put her beside Havok who is not showing any skin bar his face. I rarely used to pay much critical social thought to her costumes, mainly because I don't think there is anything wrong with them- but the X-Factor #230 page, and the recent comic book article put it to the fore front of my mind. I think the artists could do with putting more material above her chest- like her original costume or her Genoshan costumes.

We've always been critical of subvert sexist, backwards attitudes here in the Polaris thread, especially when it concerns Lorna's portrayal. We've always been pro equality and feminist. And, unfortunately, now I not only hope she is characterized better but also clothed more appropriately.

[salarta]

Being completely honest, I don't mind Lorna's costume getting more revealing. As the man I am, I like to see more skin and sex appeal in character designs, and I think showing some off can be appealing. I could make some silly argument about how showing more skin would somehow be like a symbol of something else, but ultimately all I'd really be saying is that I like cheesecake and don't mind more of it in Lorna's case. Now that I'm talking about this, I may as well mention that there's one person I talk to online that has absolutely zero interest in Marvel comics, but he's repeatedly said that he'd like to see any Lorna pictures I find that include boobage. More of that kind of appeal can lead to heightened interest, in the same way Power Girl's boob window made her incredibly popular here and even in Japan despite not having any film roles and a pseudo-cameo on Justice League Unlimited (though like their decision to ruin Harley's appearance, they're presently murdering that interest in Power Girl with her new costume, but I digress).

That said, there are definitely limits. I'd like to see Lorna in revealing attire, but that doesn't mean I want her flying around in a thong and pasties twirling boob tassels with her powers either (though it does make for some amusing art :) ). There's definitely lines between adding to her physical presence with sex appeal, and exploiting the fact she has boobs and a female figure to sell her on an empty "sex sells" angle. People usually look down on female characters that appear to be around only to dress and act like sluts for a reason, for the same reason I look down on the Marvel policy of whoring overhyped characters everywhere just because Marvel feels those characters sell more copies while pretending characters that actually deserve to be part of certain storylines are irrelevant nobodies. The average person can pick up on half-assed execution of sales gimmicks easily; going too far with it, without having a good reason, can do more harm than good for opinion of the characters as well as opinion of the company. Everyone knows sex sells, it's how the company uses it that can mean the difference between "That's appealing, she has a nice body, I think I'll check her out" and "She's just another generic half-naked skank only there to sell copies of what must be a shitty comic if they need to stoop that low."

For me, the one exception for her dressing "too" provocatively would be if there's an overriding reason, such as being possessed/under mind control, or there's a story situation to justify it. A story that presents a reason for such a dramatic change makes it acceptable, in the same way Lorna wearing heavy armor was justified when she was transformed into Pestilence.


I think we don't talk much about if she were to dress "too provocative" here because 1) female characters running around half-naked in impossible clothes is par for the course in comics, and 2) the mistreatment of Lorna's personality and actions is a bigger deal than what she's wearing. The character could dress like a prostitute on the streets or a nun in the convent, neither matters if she's portrayed as a submissive wench to a big strong man that she needs in her life to do any thinking for her. Fixing her repeated character assassinations needs to come before worrying about how she looks, since no matter how powerful and progressive she "looks," at the end of the day readers are going to roll their eyes and sneer when the character is treated like a model trophy wife from the 50s (or at least before women gained any kind of civil rights outside the kitchen). Especially one that comes off like the editors and/or writers think she belongs back at home eagerly waiting for her boyfriend to get home so she can give him his pipe and slippers.

Edit: Plus there's some opinions out there that a female dressing provocative of her own volition is a form of empowerment, the idea that for a woman her greatest asset in terms of power in society is the power of physical perfection. On the flipside, being forced to dress provocative by an external factor would become a sign of disempowerment, someone stealing her greatest asset and forcing her to wield it as they see fit. Of course, this also leads to a question of whether or not Lorna even needs to look provocative when she's powerful and smart enough (when written by someone that actually has interest in and respect for the character) to not need to use the fact she has breasts to get what she wants. Just a few thoughts.

[Ingonyama]

I kind of like the costumes of Lorna's that show some skin. Her original green suit had basically a couple of drapes of her cape over her breasts...even the modified version after she joined the team left her arms and sides bare. I don't mind that.

Her X-Factor-era costumes were pretty cool too...with the exception of the one-piece Wonder Woman swimsuit. That may have been pushing it a bit.

As a gay man, fanservice is wasted on me. However, I like seeing Lorna dress in a way that evokes confidence and strength. It's much more appealing to me than bat-wings and mile-high collars everywhere (DAMN, but the Shi'Ar suit was ugly)

[salarta]

I kind of like the costumes of Lorna's that show some skin. Her original green suit had basically a couple of drapes of her cape over her breasts...even the modified version after she joined the team left her arms and sides bare. I don't mind that.

Her X-Factor-era costumes were pretty cool too...with the exception of the one-piece Wonder Woman swimsuit. That may have been pushing it a bit.

As a gay man, fanservice is wasted on me. However, I like seeing Lorna dress in a way that evokes confidence and strength. It's much more appealing to me than bat-wings and mile-high collars everywhere (DAMN, but the Shi'Ar suit was ugly)

I didn't feel anything was wrong at all with the "Wonder Woman swimsuit," but then Marvel got censored on it for being too provocative, so I may be the exception. :P

I actually like the idea of Lorna sporting underboob rather than cleavage, but a cleavage is fine too.

I think you make a great point about evoking confidence and strength. There's a social obsession with women and their looks, it's considered one of the most important features about them to the point women wear makeup and different kinds of shoes and all kinds of things like that. By that token, Lorna showing some skin would be a sign of confidence in herself. The body is an aspect of identity, and for women, physical beauty is touted as part of that identity. Part of the reason there was an X-Men storyline where Emma Frost was tormented with the idea of getting ugly (I vaguely remember that storyline's existence, probably from /co/ on 4chan when I used to go there).

[jmc247]

I actually like the idea of Lorna sporting underboob rather than cleavage, but a cleavage is fine too.

Are you referring to the Lorna outfit below? Her wearing only a little cloth over her chest isn't exacty something she could go to battle without it potentally getting knocked off easily.

[salarta]

Are you referring to the Lorna outfit below? Her wearing only a little cloth over her chest isn't exacty something she could go to battle without it potentally getting knocked off easily.

I wasn't thinking of that specific image, but it's definitely a good example of the image I had in my head. I understand why it may not be reasonable with cloth, even if it didn't get knocked off there would be cases where she could easily "pop out" or the cloth could blow away to reveal more than intended.

But I think if we're talking about the risk of a wardrobe malfunction due to something getting knocked off, I don't think Lorna is any more or less at risk any other time. Make it metal, and if it cracks apart as metal then it's doubtful she would have been able to go without costume damage making her flash her breasts no matter how her costume was designed.

We already know what happens with cloth anyway; that was covered in her Morrigan-esque outfit.

[Mitteloss]

I kind of like the costumes of Lorna's that show some skin. Her original green suit had basically a couple of drapes of her cape over her breasts...even the modified version after she joined the team left her arms and sides bare. I don't mind that.

Her X-Factor-era costumes were pretty cool too...with the exception of the one-piece Wonder Woman swimsuit. That may have been pushing it a bit.

As a gay man, fanservice is wasted on me. However, I like seeing Lorna dress in a way that evokes confidence and strength. It's much more appealing to me than bat-wings and mile-high collars everywhere (DAMN, but the Shi'Ar suit was ugly)

There's nothing wrong with showing some skin on her costumes. There are subtle differences between her first costume and this current one. In the original depictions her breasts were fully covered, however recently its become very low cut. It's tacky and subvert sexism. There are plenty of other, better ways, female characters can evoke confidence and strength. To me, if a female superhero, wore a provocative costume as a way of showing she's strong and 'taking control of her sexuality', its pretty messed up. It confuses sexuality in women with strength in women... that is giving into sexism!

[blanchett]

I wasn't thinking of that specific image, but it's definitely a good example of the image I had in my head. I understand why it may not be reasonable with cloth, even if it didn't get knocked off there would be cases where she could easily "pop out" or the cloth could blow away to reveal more than intended.

But I think if we're talking about the risk of a wardrobe malfunction due to something getting knocked off, I don't think Lorna is any more or less at risk any other time. Make it metal, and if it cracks apart as metal then it's doubtful she would have been able to go without costume damage making her flash her breasts no matter how her costume was designed.

We already know what happens with cloth anyway; that was covered in her Morrigan-esque outfit.

I think being scantily clad works for some characters like Storm or Emma Frost but it's ridiculous for say a Huntress or Wolfsbane. I think the current amount of skin she's showing is fine for the character. For me the most important part is the tiara and the cloak. I'm not pushed about the skrull. I just don't like skulls.

As a gay man, fanservice is wasted on me. However, I like seeing Lorna dress in a way that evokes confidence and strength. It's much more appealing to me than bat-wings and mile-high collars everywhere (DAMN, but the Shi'Ar suit was ugly)

Ditto on all fronts.

[Emerald_616]

I subscribed to X-Factor this weekend on subscriptions.marvel.com so that I can start collecting from issue #233 just to see my girl!

[jmc247]

There's nothing wrong with showing some skin on her costumes. There are subtle differences between her first costume and this current one. In the original depictions her breasts were fully covered, however recently its become very low cut. It's tacky and subvert sexism. There are plenty of other, better ways, female characters can evoke confidence and strength. To me, if a female superhero, wore a provocative costume as a way of showing she's strong and 'taking control of her sexuality', its pretty messed up. It confuses sexuality in women with strength in women... that is giving into sexism!

One of the problems is the notion that she should have one costume for all things. Meaning one costume for formal attire, battle wear, and casual wear. If you look at HoM she had two battle costumes, a casual wear outfit and a formal wear outfit. Now she doesn't need that many costumes, but my point is that she was able to wear one very reveling outfit as casual wear and have her outfit as formal wear and both of them worked given the setting.

Her wearing her space outfit to a fine resturant like in Regensis just didn't really work. Her wearing it hanging out with Crystal in WoK #1 really wasn't a probelm.