Polaris Appreciation III

[LoganAlpha30x33]

Alex has few friends outside of Lorna as well, he's interacted with probably more characters than Lorna sure, but mostly as Scott's little brother, to where after he leaves most people probably wouldn't even remember his name...I'd rather see Xavier come back, restart the X-men with Lorna leading one team and Alex another, that way they could be a couple but we'd get bits of it in both books, but that would keep it from dominating either. I just hope that Lorna doesn't get thrown under the bus to help give Bobby a good story, like she's suddenly madly in love with him or something crazy like that.

For most of her existence Magneto was not her father, so it's a MASSIVE retcon that he now is her father, meaning that he's never really been a good father to her.

[jmc247]

Alex has few friends outside of Lorna as well, he's interacted with probably more characters than Lorna sure, but mostly as Scott's little brother, to where after he leaves most people probably wouldn't even remember his name...I'd rather see Xavier come back, restart the X-men with Lorna leading one team and Alex another, that way they could be a couple but we'd get bits of it in both books, but that would keep it from dominating either. I just hope that Lorna doesn't get thrown under the bus to help give Bobby a good story, like she's suddenly madly in love with him or something crazy like that.

For most of her existence Magneto was not her father, so it's a MASSIVE retcon that he now is her father, meaning that he's never really been a good father to her.

I have avoided bashing Lorna's relationship with Havok as much as humanly possible for me, but you are pushing it by constantly acting as if her parentage is something in the way of her relationship with Havok. Its not... she isn't with him right now not because of her damn parentage. She isn't with him right now because Rick R. and/or Tom Brevoort wanted Havok and didn't want Lorna to tag along full stop.

As for Lorna's relationship with Havok I have seen only one poster online among those that do support her being with Havok that believe that her family story is interfering with her relationship with Havok.

From what I have seen most believe it just might be the fact that she is Wanda's sister along with being Havok's ex that convinces Rick R. and/or Tom B. to try to bring her over to Uncanny Avengers after X-Factor ends. In that way her parentage and fans promoting Lorna and Wanda interacting is actually helping your goal of possibly getting Lorna on UA with Alex not hurting it.

Lorna's relationship with Havok tends to be not all that bad for Havok when they are in relationship, but historically for Lorna its been a real limiting force for Lorna. I can only imagine how great the character development would have been between Rachel and Lorna if Havok and Polaris weren't being written as a couple during the space arc. Lorna was together on the same team with Rachel for over five years and in that time they developed virtually no on panel relationship so future writers won't mentally connect the characters as we have no idea what Lorna thinks about Rachel or vice versa.

I will also say my view that Lorna and Havok's best interactions by far are when they aren't together romantically. Then writers depict them as two separate characters who happen to be connected rather then 'a couple'. I am talking about Lorna and Alex in Mutant X, Lorna and Alex in X-Factor 1998 or Lorna and Alex in X-Men from 2004. Its amazing how good the two characters can be together when they are being written like two separate individuals instead of a couple.



As for Wanda and Lorna they are two of the few characters that Lorna and Wanda could have an awesome family feud with and a battle that fans will remember for decades and the next issue be joking about things over a glass of wine.

[salarta]

PAD Tuesday Q & A at Marvel.com

http://marvel.com/news/story/20660/t...qa_peter_david

I find it curious that in the midst of Marvel.com asking Peter David what his proudest moments were for each character, they skipped Lorna. Maybe asking the question is more about what characters have been around for most of the run, considering I see that Wolfsbane is included in the questions but she currently isn't on the roster.

I'm also fascinated that he's excited about seeing fan reaction to each issue, but I think that on a lot of levels that says good things. What I've had to see happen in the video game industry has made me expect over time that a lot of writers out there don't care one bit about what fans think. I've seen a lot of video games over the past 6 years that treated their IPs horrendously, and much of it was specifically because the people behind those things ignored the fans. Of course, all of the guilty companies (Capcom and Square-Enix to name a couple) have been getting trounced financially over the past couple years because such behavior caught up with them.

Those are a good Top 7 my friend, well done. I hope to have Wanda get more interaction with her sister, still don't understand why they have not done more of that.

Also, this is my 1st time Posting her on Lorna's thread, so I like to say hello to all the Polaris Fans and introduce myself and say Hello to all.

I am a Big Fan of Lorna's sister Wanda Maximoff and hope they get more time together in the future. It is nice to meet you all.

WELCOME.

I think most of the reason Lorna and Wanda haven't been able to do much together has been people not managing to see the great vision of such interactions. We can't say that nobody at Marvel saw it, because aside from the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon, we had Fantastic Force and Exiles where AU versions of them got to interact and be awesome. It's just that people that drove the main titles couldn't see it. I still don't really think any of them do, but I hope I'm wrong or that that changes.

I hope you don't take offense to this, but I think the dynamic between Lorna and Wanda that I saw through the things I mentioned above saved my interest in Wanda. I think it kept me from thinking of Wanda in negative ways and writing off her worth, because I tend to increasingly dislike a character the more I feel like a company is trying to force a character on me as a consumer as if I should think they're great too. This is why I originally skipped the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon, because I was annoyed by how it presented Wolverine as so much more important than the very franchise that spawned him that he gets first name billing (this is something that still annoys me with the name of the book too, but not so much anymore). I learned Lorna was in it, I watched it because of her presence, and I discovered the cartoon was actually a hell of a lot better than I'd written it off as being.

Welcome to the Polaris Thread.

I was thinking they could probably do an A+X for Wanda and Lorna. Possibly she might even turn up in Uncanny Avengers. I really hope they build their relationship more, and I hope they're civil and diplomatic with eachother.

I hope this happens too, though I'd prefer their first meeting to be antagonistic with the possibility of the two of them making up and being on good terms by the end. I'm fine with either type of interaction with them, it's just that I have a very, very hard time believing that Lorna would be hugs and kisses for Wanda the next time they meet considering Wanda's depowering of her made Lorna's life hellish. I'd say "until she got her powers back," but then I have to ask, would she still have gone into space, stayed in space, and ended up getting both tortured and mind controlled while out there if she hadn't been depowered on M-Day? I can't see their first meeting being an immediately pleasant one even if they weren't sisters, but the fact they are sisters is something that I think would make it all the stronger.

Fans really want to see them interact and fan art isn't the only test, just look at all the fans that go together as Wanda and Lorna to comic cons. While I certainly am quite excited about Pietro and Lorna meeting up and don't want to take anything away from PAD in that regard, Lorna and Wanda are the highest profile sisters in Marvel comics and characters that I think have the greatest potential in interacting in the future if done well when one takes into account their powers, histories, views, and many other factors.

Yeah, I've been saying often that Lorna and Wanda interaction is the main thing I'd like to see, and that I don't mean in any way to devalue the coming Lorna and Pietro issue in saying that. The issue is still a very big and important thing; Pietro IS Lorna's brother after all, and relationship development with any characters but especially her family (at least for the time being, since there's been a severe drought of such content over the past ten years) is a great thing. I think wanting one thing most of all doesn't mean you don't want or appreciate something other than that most valued thing if it's given to you.

Alex has few friends outside of Lorna as well, he's interacted with probably more characters than Lorna sure, but mostly as Scott's little brother, to where after he leaves most people probably wouldn't even remember his name...I'd rather see Xavier come back, restart the X-men with Lorna leading one team and Alex another, that way they could be a couple but we'd get bits of it in both books, but that would keep it from dominating either. I just hope that Lorna doesn't get thrown under the bus to help give Bobby a good story, like she's suddenly madly in love with him or something crazy like that.

For most of her existence Magneto was not her father, so it's a MASSIVE retcon that he now is her father, meaning that he's never really been a good father to her.

That sounds like a generally good idea to me, but I think it would take a lot of years for such a scenario to be possible, since I don't think Xavier is going to come back for at least a decade. I think your idea also hits on a common concern many Lorna fans have voiced, that Lorna and Alex on the same book together as a couple seems to result in both of them losing a lot of their uniquely interesting qualities for the sake of making them fit ideas of how they should be as a couple. The "separate teams but in a relationship" idea sounds like a good way of keeping the writers grounded in knowing who these characters are individually, which leads into much better treatment of them while together.

I don't think Lorna's going to get thrown under the bus for Bobby's story; I'm expecting her to be treated the same way as all the other women are treated. I also expect to see her suddenly madly in love with him, but I expect it to come from some level of mind control from Bobby's dark side. Now, of course I don't mean "expect" as a synonym for "demand," I mean it as that I'm predicting that will happen and I'm prepared if it does.

I'm... not quite sure what the problem with her being part of the Magnus family is, though. Being Magneto's daughter was part of her introduction as a character, so "retconning" her to being part of the family again is essentially bringing her full circle back to where she was when she started. I don't think whether or not he's been a good father to her is the issue. Magneto hasn't been a good father to Wanda and Pietro either, does that mean Wanda and Pietro should be retconned so they're not Magneto's children? I don't think most of Lorna and Alex's history as a couple has been good for either of them, does that mean their whole relationship should be retconned as having never happened?

I think people need to stop acting like one relationship somehow magically detracts from another relationship. That attitude helps nobody. All it does is divide people. What does a person that likes Lorna and Alex as a couple have to gain by trying to keep people that like Lorna as part of the Magnus family from getting to see what they want? Best case scenario, fans of Lorna as part of the Magnus family are mildly annoyed. Worst case scenario, they're encouraged to hate Lorna and Alex as a couple for "getting in the way" of what they want to see. It's a textbook example of a Base Breaker, and it's an unnecessary one that we can avoid.


Also holy crap jmc, your bolding broke my eyes!

[jmc247]

I'm... not quite sure what the problem with her being part of the Magnus family is, though. Being Magneto's daughter was part of her introduction as a character, so "retconning" her to being part of the family again is essentially bringing her full circle back to where she was when she started. I don't think whether or not he's been a good father to her is the issue. Magneto hasn't been a good father to Wanda and Pietro either, does that mean Wanda and Pietro should be retconned so they're not Magneto's children? I don't think most of Lorna and Alex's history as a couple has been good for either of them, does that mean their whole relationship should be retconned as having never happened?

I think people need to stop acting like one relationship somehow magically detracts from another relationship. That attitude helps nobody. All it does is divide people. What does a person that likes Lorna and Alex as a couple have to gain by trying to keep people that like Lorna as part of the Magnus family from getting to see what they want? Best case scenario, fans of Lorna as part of the Magnus family are mildly annoyed. Worst case scenario, they're encouraged to hate Lorna and Alex as a couple for "getting in the way" of what they want to see. It's a textbook example of a Base Breaker, and it's an unnecessary one that we can avoid.

Well yes to be blunt I hate the Havok/Polaris relationship, but I do a very good job at keeping my thoughts to myself the vast majority of the time and avoid bashing it except at rare times like when someone decides that her family relationships which still are hardly developed at all detracts from her relationship with Havok. Lorna has a ways to go before she has a clear outline of a post revel relationship with Magneto and Pietro two characters she had close relationships with pre-Morrison. She has no outline of a relationship with Wanda whatsoever. If one added all the panel time Lorna has had with her entire core family of Wanda, Magneto, and Pietro post parentage revel we are talking about enough dialogue to fit into one comic book.

The fact also remains that Lorna's relationship with Wanda represents one of Havolaris fans best arguments for an 'in' to get Lorna back on a team with Havok. No Lorna's life doesn't revolve around Havok any more and that is a good thing, but it also certainly doesn't revolve around her family relationships that have had scraps of interaction over the past decade plus compared historically speaking to the endless buffet of interaction between Havok and Polaris.

[salarta]

Well yes to be blunt I hate the Havolaris relationship, but I do a very good job at keeping my thoughts to myself the vast majority of the time and avoid bashing it except someone decides that somehow her family relationships which still are hardly developed at all detracts from her relationship with Havok. Lorna has a ways to go before she has a clear outline of a post revel relationship with Magneto and Pietro two characters she had close relationships with pre-Morrison. She has no outline of a relationship with Wanda whatsoever. If one added all the panel time Lorna has had with her entire core family of Wanda, Magneto, and Pietro post parentage revel we are talking about enough dialogue to fit into one comic book.

The fact also remains that Lorna's relationship with Wanda represents one of Havolaris fans best arguments for an 'in' to get Lorna back on a team with Havok. No Lorna's life doesn't revolve around Havok any more and that is a good thing, but it also certainly doesn't revolve around her family relationships that have had scraps of interaction over the past decade plus compared historically speaking to the endless buffet of interaction between Havok and Polaris.

I actually almost talked about how I used to hate Alex with a passion, since a couple years back I felt Alex was ruining Lorna, before I realized the problems I had were really a matter of how their relationship as a couple was being used and written, not with the fact they had a relationship at all.

It's perfectly possible for Lorna to interact with the Magnus family AND be in a relationship with Alex. Well, unless being in a relationship with Alex requires her to be locked up in the basement 24/7 with no visitors. :P I won't lie about the progression of my feelings toward Lorna and Alex as a couple; my desire to see them split apart started with not liking Alex or the relationship, but well before they actually split up in X-Factor, that desire had changed to the much more understanding, beneficial and well-meaning goal of wanting to see their relationship started on the right foot and depicted in a positive manner if they get back together (which I'm laying odds at a 10000% chance they'll get back together). They got back together under really bad and unflattering terms before the space arc, but now we have a chance of seeing them brought back together again under terms that make them and their relationship look every bit as awesome as fans of the pairing want others to see it as being.

Not to mention, this opens the door to the possibility of their getting back together being much more high-profile fare than it was before the space arc. During the space arc, it was kind of a "Meh, whatever, same old same old" kind of feeling that spanned a couple pages. Now, their getting back together could be a major point of a whole story arc, or possibly even a meaningful moment in a major event.

[jmc247]

It's perfectly possible for Lorna to interact with the Magnus family AND be in a relationship with Alex.

Of course it is... we saw it happen in the space arc quite well from RAFOTSE, to EV, to Kingbreaker, to WoK and finally to X-Men Legacy. Her relationship with Alex doesn't detract from her relationship with Magneto and vice versa and I never said it did. You don't need to convince me on the issue here. You need to convince LoganAlpha who has believed as long as I have know the poster that her parentage detracts from her relationship with Alex.

[salarta]

Of course it is... we saw it happen in the space arc quite well from RAFOTSE, to EV, to Kingbreaker, to WoK and finally to X-Men Legacy. Her relationship with Alex doesn't detract from her relationship with Magneto and vice versa and I never said it did. You don't need to convince me on the issue here. You need to convince LoganAlpha who has believed as long as I have know the poster that her parentage detracts from her relationship with Alex.

I didn't mean to imply you said that one detracts from the other, sorry for giving you that impression. But I know that there are some people out there that think Alex is hurting Lorna's potential, and my remarks are to them just as much as to people that strangely think that Lorna's Magnus family ties are somehow hurting her potential in other areas.

[jmc247]

New Iceman and Polaris art. I expect this Astonishing X-Men storyline will lead to quite a lot of new Polaris and Iceman art and probably a lot of renewed interest in their relationship.



http://therealorkie.deviantart.com/a...Love-372922670

[The_Greatest_Username]

I was actually about to post that pic here yesterday. This Astonishing X-Men arc seems to have reinvigorated my Polaris/Iceman shipping. Obviously, Lorna isn't attracted to him at the moment, but it's always fun when they interact.

[jmc247]

I was actually about to post that pic here yesterday. This Astonishing X-Men arc seems to have reinvigorated my Polaris/Iceman shipping. Obviously, Lorna isn't attracted to him at the moment, but it's always fun when they interact.

Were you a fan of the ship in Milligan's run?

[The_Greatest_Username]

Were you a fan of the ship in Milligan's run?

As one-sided as it was during that run, I absolutely was.

[jmc247]

As one-sided as it was during that run, I absolutely was.

I really felt for him in that arc even though he did have 'temporary rebound guy' almost tattooed to his forehead.

[The_Greatest_Username]

I really felt for him in that arc even though he did have 'temporary rebound guy' almost tattooed to his forehead.

Yeah, it felt like a real relationship instead of the usual "one true love" deals we usually see. I like that Bobby tried his best with Lorna. I'd like to see it given another shot somewhere down the road.

[jmc247]

Yeah, it felt like a real relationship instead of the usual "one true love" deals we usually see. I like that Bobby tried his best with Lorna. I'd like to see it given another shot somewhere down the road.

Their relationship has never been given much of a chance. The longest they have ever been together was a couple months before it falls into entirely a love triangle where its clear things certainly aren't favoring him. I agree it should be given one real shot sometime in the future... but no time soon.