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  1. #4171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitteloss View Post
    You drawings are really nice- the costume seems to combine the Austen era purple costume with her green space one. Very grande design :) Thank you for sharing.

    I believe I kept adding and tweaking the purple costume before I saw what Polaris looked like in the space one. I like the purple one because it goes so well with her hair color.

    Polaris is mutant royalty, Magneto has named her as his heir, and she's practically a female Magneto, power-wise. Imagine having her on your team. She's a force of nature.

    I believe I read somewhere that she's got more raw power than Magneto, only he is more skillful.

  2. #4172

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    Double post.

  3. #4173

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Nice drawings and nice to see Lorna in her Uncanny and New X-Men outfit from early to mid last decade.
    Ooooh, this picture was drawn back in 2004, her body is completely out of proportion, Xorn, too. Who wants a 2012 version of this drawing?

  4. #4174

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    Quote Originally Posted by bongy View Post
    Awesome drawings! I love her purple costume during Austen's run. You draw much better than I do haha.
    Thank you for the compliment. The first picture I posted is not complete AT ALL. I was trying to replicate her cover from Kingbreaker or something (the space era cover).

  5. #4175
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_omega View Post
    I believe I kept adding and tweaking the purple costume before I saw what Polaris looked like in the space one. I like the purple one because it goes so well with her hair color.

    Polaris is mutant royalty, Magneto has named her as his heir, and she's practically a female Magneto, power-wise. Imagine having her on your team. She's a force of nature.

    I believe I read somewhere that she's got more raw power than Magneto, only he is more skillful.
    While I have major problems with her current outfit I don't want her going to a generic super hero outfit or street level outfits for those reasons that she is a force of nature and she is mutant royalty. Her current costume is a very weak take off of her origional with none of its flair and mistakes the origional doesn't have, but if she is to change it I don't want it to feel like mid 90s X-Factor Lorna.

  6. #4176

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    While I have major problems with her current outfit I don't want her going to a generic super hero outfit or street level outfits for those reasons that she is a force of nature and she is mutant royalty. Her current costume is a very weak take off of her origional with none of its flair and mistakes the origional doesn't have, but if she is to change it I don't want it to feel like mid 90s X-Factor Lorna.
    Me too. I want a badass purple costume with a cape and a royal looking tiara. Maybe it could serve as a telepathy blocker. If you read AXM, in an alternate reality, Magneto has many telepathy blocking helmets with different designs, and one of them is like a tiara. This could potentially serve as a solution of "no more mind controlled Polaris."

    Havok and Polaris are heavy-hitters, with big, flashy powers. I wonder how PAD will handle that in a detective type, noir-ish title. The previous roster worked well, their powers were not big, destructive and flashy. Yes, it was a powerful team, but not big and flashy. You know what I am saying? PAD, if you are reading this, I hope you dont get what I am saying in the wrong way.

    I mean, you have the frickin' MISTRESS OF MAGNETISM, and her celestial technology restored powers, at their lowest levels, are higher and much harder to control than her original powers at the same level. I hope PAD uses Polaris' ability to see everything around her as magnetic waves and be able to tell people apart from their unique magnetic signatures.

    She should be written as a royal princess with her own philosophical and political views regarding mutants, up there with Cyclops, Wolverine, Xavier, and Magneto.

    I am interested in what path and approach PAD will take her in, especially addressing her relationship with Havok and making her her own woman.

  7. #4177
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_omega View Post
    Me too. I want a badass purple costume with a cape and a royal looking tiara. Maybe it could serve as a telepathy blocker. If you read AXM, in an alternate reality, Magneto has many telepathy blocking helmets with different designs, and one of them is like a tiara

    She should be written as a royal princess with her own philosophical and political views regarding mutants, up there with Cyclops, Wolverine, Xavier, and Magneto.
    That is a very good point regarding her philosophy on mutant issues which was one of the most interesting aspect of her 2000-2005 run which has been mostly forgotten about since then. It was one of the major things I liked about the character in that era. She had her own views on mutant issues and she cared about something greater then herself and was willing to fight for it. I must say that above anything else is what I want to see a return to from her. It's increasingly hard to keep my emotional connection to the character since she was disconnected from all that with the start of the space arc.

  8. #4178

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    That is a very good point regarding her philosophy on mutant issues which was one of the most interesting aspect of her 2000-2005 run which has been mostly forgotten about since then. It was one of the major things I liked about the character in that era. She had her own views on mutant issues and she cared about something greater then herself and was willing to fight for it. I must say that above anything else is what I want to see a return to from her. It's increasingly hard to keep my emotional connection to the character since she was disconnected from all that with the start of the space arc.
    I loved that UXM issue where Polaris reveals to Wanda and Pietro that she is their step-sister and the whole going to Genosha and acting like a noble royal and her speech and debate with Xavier, with the beautiful resolution at the end, where she builds them memorial statues, for Xavier, Magneto, and Jean. In addition, I liked her freedom in XM when using her powers and not caring about Alex and accepting he is with nurse Annie. She was a badass.

  9. #4179
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    Solits for X-Factor 239 and 240.

    X-FACTOR #239

    (W) Peter David (A) Leonard Kirk (CA) David Yardin

    Banshee versus…an actual banshee?!
    Strong Guy asks M out on a date. (Yikes!)

    X-FACTOR #240

    (W) Peter David (A) Leonard Kirk (CA) David Yardin

    “RUN LAYLA RUN”
    A one-off issue featuring Layla Miller racing the clock.

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/...de-seeing-now/

  10. #4180

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    Very interesting. I'm reading a blog called Secret Behind the X-Men. Apparently a one point there was a Havok and Polaris series in the works by Walter Simonson.

    “When Havok went back into the X-Men, that sort of took care of the Havok And Polaris series we’d planned,” X-Factor artist Walter Simonson told Marvel Age #68. “Some of the ideas for that will in fact be turning up in the Avengers (which I’m writing).”http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot.com/
    Some other Lorna stuff.
    The Dane sisters
    In Uncanny X-Men #249 from 1989, the villain Zaladane surprised Lorna Dane (Polaris) by calling her sister. It appeared as if their family relation would never be explained following the death of Zaladane in Uncanny X-Men #275 in 1991, but it is possible that Chris Claremont had intended to revive Zaladane and resolve the issue. Certainly, Amazing Heroes #192 featured a design sketch by Jim Lee of Zaladane along with some for Omega Red, who at the time was set to debut in X-Men vol.2 #3 in 1991. With Claremont’s departure, the resurrection of Zaladane just ended up not happening.

    Ten years later, in 2001, when Claremont left Uncanny X-Men for the second time to write X-Treme X-Men, Zaladane’s resurrection ended up not happening again: “Also lost in the shuffle: (…) a story in the Savage Land reintroducing Zaladane as a vengeful earth-oriented character, who manipulates tectonic plates the way her sister, Lorna, does magnetism, and her desire to avenge herself against Magneto (who “killed” her in Uncanny X-Men #275) by destroying Genosha (an island nation which Magneto ruled at the time),” Claremont revealed to Cinescape.com.

    At the time, Marvel instituted an editorial policy against resurrecting dead characters, which may explain why Zaladane’s resurrection didn’t happen in the 2001-2002 X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land mini-series either, but Genosha did end up getting destroyed, although by Sentinels, in New X-Men #115 in 2001, written by Grant Morrison.
    “Right. With three issues in the drawer,” Claremont continued. “And what happened was that while we were pretty much solidifying the concept or at least getting it as much into focus as we felt we needed, Mark Gruenwald went into (Editor-In-Chief) Jim (Shooter)’s office with a proposal for an alternative X-Men book involving the “loose” members of the original team – Angel, Iceman, Beast, Havok, Polaris – and I suppose any other extraneous mutants that happened to be around, and setting them up on the West Coast as a kind of a…”

    “X-Men West,” Louise Jones cut in.
    Last edited by blanchett; 04-14-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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  11. #4181
    He Who Eats Spoons salarta's Avatar
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    I have to say I'm thankful neither of those projects happened.

    The first one about a Havok and Polaris series, at that time, would have hurt both characters even more than they're already damaged in terms of public opinion. You can see straight from people like Brevoort how badly perception of the two characters as actual characters has eroded due to how they've been handled as a couple. Even if a Havok and Polaris series had the best writing you could ever imagine, the fact is that most people are used to seeing their relationship written as both of them being pathetic and easily manipulated.

    I know using myself as an example is kind of shoddy here, but I still think my case study fits: my reaction to Wolverine and the X-Men is a prime example. It was actually a good cartoon, one I only finally decided to watch when I discovered Lorna was in it, but until then I scoffed at it because it had Wolverine's name plastered on the title and taking preference over the X-Men to boot. When a person has preconceived notions about how a company uses characters, titles like that just make you expect to see more of the same unless the company goes out of its way to prove to you that your impressions are wrong.

    This is also why I personally push for Lorna and Alex spending a lot more time apart, and having them promoted individually. Right now, a lot of people will write off seeing their names and images paired together as "more of the same crap," but when you show them off separately, you're automatically saying "We're going to show you more about Alex/Lorna than his/her relationship with his/her other half." From there, it's just a matter of slowly, respectfully presenting more of them in their relationship. Give readers a positive impression of the two as individuals, and given enough time has passed with the readers seeing that, readers can start to care about and respect them as a couple.


    As for the Zaladane part. For one, it's Claremont. I recognize a lot of people out there highly value his work, consider him something of a godfather for the X-Men, and perhaps he deserves a ton of praise for just about every character that isn't Lorna. But what I have seen of his writing shows he treated Lorna very poorly, up to and including his recent use of her in X-Men Forever. So for starters, I don't think he would have been the right person to write anything concerning Lorna's backstory and any family connections, since I do not trust him to treat her as a character worthy of love and respect. I expect he would have approached her backstory as merely filling in the gaps, not fleshing out the character, and that's not the kind of writer you want making big decisions about the character. Kind of like how you wouldn't keep lending DVDs to someone that has a track record of intentionally breaking them.

    The much less writer-specific reason I'm glad the Zaladane stuff didn't pan out is Lorna's opportunities as a character. Right now, she's part of the Magnus family, which led to her getting to be in the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon, the House of M events and potentially much, much more if Marvel were to start using her potential in big storylines. If she was revealed as Zaladane's sister first, Lorna would never have been allowed to become part of the Magnus family, possibly forever, and we would have lost both the positive development for her in the early 00s and tons of new possibilities for her use in the comics.

    The way things are now, we get to see Lorna in the Magnus family AND at some point Marvel may be able to address how Zaladane fits into things. Everyone may be able to get what they want out of Lorna's potential. Storylines about Lorna and Alex's relationship, as some people care about most. Storylines about how she interacts with Magneto, Pietro and Wanda, with a wealth of fresh new ideas there (such as the first major sister relationship ever seen in Marvel comics, between Lorna and Wanda). Storylines that make great drama from both, given potential conflict between the Summers and Magnus families. And of course, Zaladane's return can have a lot more impact and narrative worth than it ever would have provided if Lorna wasn't already confirmed to be Magneto's daughter.

    And wow. Writing all this out made me realize just how much more praise Marvel deserves for some of their decisions than I've been giving them. Things could be better, especially if they had allowed Lorna to take part in Avengers vs X-Men like she deserves, but they could be a lot worse too.

  12. #4182

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I have to say I'm thankful neither of those projects happened.

    The first one about a Havok and Polaris series, at that time, would have hurt both characters even more than they're already damaged in terms of public opinion. You can see straight from people like Brevoort how badly perception of the two characters as actual characters has eroded due to how they've been handled as a couple. Even if a Havok and Polaris series had the best writing you could ever imagine, the fact is that most people are used to seeing their relationship written as both of them being pathetic and easily manipulated.

    The much less writer-specific reason I'm glad the Zaladane stuff didn't pan out is Lorna's opportunities as a character. Right now, she's part of the Magnus family, which led to her getting to be in the Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon, the House of M events and potentially much, much more if Marvel were to start using her potential in big storylines. If she was revealed as Zaladane's sister first, Lorna would never have been allowed to become part of the Magnus family, possibly forever, and we would have lost both the positive development for her in the early 00s and tons of new possibilities for her use in the comics.
    I definately don't think it would have hurt both characters if anything if would have helped them in terms of prominence. Part of the reason that the Scarlet Witch has such a large fanbase is because of the Vision and the Scarlet Witch series. I'm curious thougt what he was intending for the series, as he claimed he adapted some of the plots into his Avengers run. I had a quick look on comicvine and it had the Plodex, Kang, Orphan Maker and Inferno Demons. Added to the fact that Simonson is a proven good writer, his run on Thor has become one of the heroes most iconic runs it's a shame that he never wrote Lorna. He wrote Havok later on in the Havok and Wolverine mini series. He collaborated with his wife, Louise Simonson a lot too and she worked on X-Factor created Apocalypse, the Horsemen etc. Another good writer. She referenced Lorna in the X-Factor Forever series, a couple of years which was actually quite good.

    I'm also convinced that it was Claremont intention that Lorna and Zala were both Magnetos. I could see him doing it out of spite actually. He might have been annoyed that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch were revealed as Magneto's kids as they were out of his control. They seemed to represent two different aspects of Magneto's character, prior to Malice, Lorna was Magneto before the death of Anya and Zala was him at his absolute worst. The text from the storyline that Zala died in could definately fit for a later reveal that she was Magneto's daughter. That would be an extremely dark storyline though, I think it would work for the character of Magneto but I can't see marvel going for that now with all the white washing they seem to be doing of the character.
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  13. #4183
    He Who Eats Spoons salarta's Avatar
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    I didn't even know Scarlet Witch and Vision were a thing, but the critical difference is that the first thought on your mind when you think of Scarlet Witch and Vision together isn't negative. Scarlet Witch and Vision were not dragged down by decades of their characters being almost completely defined by their relationship and being failures as superheroes while in it.

    Until perception of Lorna and Alex's relationship is rehabilitated, first and foremost by fixing all the bad things writers tend to do to it, a book dedicated specifically to the Havok and Polaris relationship is suicidal for Marvel's sales and could irreversibly damage both characters. If Marvel launched such a series back then, or even right this second, they'd be fighting an uphill battle against all the built-up hatred and indifference the relationship has acquired after decades of the characters being portrayed as weaklings with no depth beyond having sex with each other in their brief moments during their off time when they're not being mind-controlled or tortured by the flavor of the year.

    Repairing the damaged image readers have of Lorna and Alex together as a couple is an absolutely necessary prerequisite to any potential book that focuses heavily on that relationship. Marvel would be insane not to do that first. If they fix the things that make people hate/not care about Lorna and Alex due to being a couple, a "Havok and Polaris" book could be met with a great deal more positivity, sales, and potentially even much more than that. We're talking years of consistent run, perhaps a heavy presence in cartoons and films and video games, and even involvement in major events. But that's only if popular perception of their relationship is fixed first. If it's not, and Marvel launched that book anyway, it would garner abysmal sales, its run would end much sooner than its potential, it would show up barely anywhere in other media if anywhere at all, it would be next to impossible that Marvel would even attempt a Havok and Polaris book again for at least a decade, and worst of all, it would further kill interest in stories that have either of them in it because readers would assume Lorna or Alex will only be there to do something involving their relationship.

    It's seriously for the best for all fans of Lorna, especially for fans of her relationship with Alex, that a "Havok and Polaris" series has not yet been created. It's sacrificing short-term goals for long-term ones. I would think any fan of their relationship would be more keen on waiting a little while for Marvel to lay a groundwork that leads to decades of what they love most getting its full potential put to use, than on seeing something much smaller that only lasts a year or two.


    I think there's a lot of potential to Lorna and Zaladane, but I'd much rather wait until perception of Lorna and her place in the Magnus family has vastly improved, and writers and editors at Marvel are far more willing to treat Lorna better and make good use of all the potential she has to offer them. I can wait for Marvel to get all their ducks in a row, because hopefully that leads to a much more awesome and exciting set of storylines than what we can get right now.

    And I still don't trust Claremont to do anything with Lorna. He's done enough damage, I don't want to see him do any more. I can give him props for introducing a character in Zaladane that other writers could transform into an archrival specific to Lorna and a great backstory element to her character, and I can acknowledge Lorna's codename from him given it's what she's most well known as today, but that's about it. If he had great, respectable things in mind for Lorna, he had more than two decades straight to do it. Even if we assume he did, there's a reason he repeatedly chose to push them back in favor of spending all his time on all the other characters. I simply do not trust him, and I feel a lot more comfortable thinking she's away from Claremont and in the hands of writers that have a lot more respect for her.
    Last edited by salarta; 04-15-2012 at 09:58 AM.

  14. #4184
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    The thing I like most if they made Zaladane Lorna sister that would mean that Mags most likely killed his child and i wonder the effect that would take on both his and Lorna mind.
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  15. #4185

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    Quote Originally Posted by timeismoney View Post
    The thing I like most if they made Zaladane Lorna sister that would mean that Mags most likely killed his child and i wonder the effect that would take on both his and Lorna mind.
    I think Lorna would be tramatized but she'd get over it. Magneto on the other hand would be something else entirely. It might be enough to really make him change his philosophies and a future redemption period would be totally sincere. That or he'd top himself.

    Considering that Claremont killed Magneto and in X-Men Forever he killed Havok and alluded that Polaris was going to become chief magistrate, I wonder if he had planned the Zaladane story years ago and Lorna was going end up with control of Genosha as Magneto's heir. Interesting thought.
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