Polaris Appreciation III

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I just happened to find this earlier today.

http://boardreader.com/thread/The_Po..._9suX824c.html

According to this thing, jmc is the top poster here many times over, followed by me. I didn't think I posted here nearly as much as many others.

Then again, it also claims we've had no activity in the past week and that's just plain wrong.

You can see how many times people have posted by going to the main x-books appreciation thread forum and just clicking on the "Replies" number.

[blanchett]

I find it disturbing that sound other site is monitoring we say on here, about something as trival as a comic book character.

[TheCatBastet]

Where did he say that?

I think it was when Marvel was doing the post-Schism cover reveals. They did the X-Factor cover showing Havok, and PAD made a comment on his blog (I believe) about Marvel spoiling the ending of issue 230. Kind of a 'Well, darn. There goes my surprise.'.

[JeanGreyForever]

I think it was when Marvel was doing the post-Schism cover reveals. They did the X-Factor cover showing Havok, and PAD made a comment on his blog (I believe) about Marvel spoiling the ending of issue 230. Kind of a 'Well, darn. There goes my surprise.'.

That would have been a great suprise although we Lorna fans would not have been happy having no idea where the character is going after Legacy

BTW sorry guys I haven't posted here for a long time. Been so busy but I won't neglect my fav emerald-head any longer Especially not when the issue that will mark her return in an ongoing book is coming so soon.

[salarta]

I find it disturbing that sound other site is monitoring we say on here, about something as trival as a comic book character.

First off, Lorna is not trivial. I realize you very likely meant that to mean ANY character regardless of who it is, even if it was someone as overhyped as Wolverine, but when I read that my immediate thought was focused on Lorna being seen as trivial because she's a comic book character. In any case, there's no such thing as trivial here. Fictional characters are part of fiction, and aside from being entertainment (their first and foremost purpose these days), characters can also provide morals and values, or inspire you in many different ways. Superman is probably the most obvious way to see this with comic book characters, since he's seen as representing the good in humanity, high morals and values, etc.

The second thing is that it's not anywhere near as insidious as you might think it is. I've seen similar sites before, and a lot of times it's just bots archiving anything they find and creating statistics based on that. I can tell by the name 'boardreader' that the site's purpose is to archive developments with message boards.

One of those similar sites for me was finding one for twitter accounts. I found a site categorizing my tweets as things like hatred for Squeenix (my name a certain company for getting really really bad), fanfiction, etc. I'm sure there are some similar subjective sites for following message boards that categorize each post in a thread that they choose to archive. These days, various websites track just about everything you say and do. This started at least in the mid-2000s, and Google even used to host stripped down cached versions of sites in their search results. I don't see those links anymore in search results, so I'm guessing Google got rid of it.

That would have been a great suprise although we Lorna fans would not have been happy having no idea where the character is going after Legacy

BTW sorry guys I haven't posted here for a long time. Been so busy but I won't neglect my fav emerald-head any longer Especially not when the issue that will mark her return in an ongoing book is coming so soon.

One of the very few positive things I can say about how Marvel has handled what happens with Lorna after the Carey arc is that at least they didn't keep us guessing about where she would go next. After a year to a year and a half of Lorna being stuck in space limbo, knowing she's not about to be shelved for more limbo was a good thing.

[blanchett]

I don't like my words being monitored by some website. It's really none of their business.

Some Lorna questions in this week's X-Position. Some of his comments in the first one may not be what some of you what to hear. What's definately positive is that he's considering writing Lorna's origin and he considers it a big story. What's also good is that he didn't mention any possibilty of a retcon of Magneto being her father.

I remember reading somewhere that he scripts six months ahead so if he's deciding now and make's his decision soon we might not be waiting that long.

1) It's been eight years since readers learned that Polaris' mother died under suspicious circumstances. Now that's she's joining Marvel's premier detective agency, will she start to investigate it? Fans have been crying out for her definitive origin story for years…

Yeah, that's a tricky one, Derek. The real question is: was Magneto responsible for the death of her mother (and her mother's husband)? That would be a fairly explosive revelation, because if he is, then she basically is going to go to war with her father. Polaris has always had a ticking time bomb element to her psyche, and such a reveal would detonate it big time. So the answer is: it depends on whether Marvel would be up for that, and if Lorna as a character could survive such a discovery. It's something I've been kicking around, and I'm going to be making some decisions on that soon.

2) It was implied that Polaris retained her Pestilence powers in "X-Men: Kingbreaker." Gambit also retained his abilities and has been shown to be still battling his Death persona. Is Polaris still battling her Pestilence persona or do you see that as a non-issue?

A non-issue. She's got enough going on in her noggin without worrying about that.

3) It was great that Mike Carey laid some groundwork for Polaris' and Magneto's post-Decimation relationship, but with them on different sides of the Schism, will you be following this up?
Kinda depends on whether I pursue the storyline we were just discussing above.

5) I was surprised by how much Wanda worked with X-Factor in "Avengers: The Children's Crusade." Is there any chance she might become a fixture? She has a very undeveloped relationship with her sister Polaris, and her connection to Layla (whatever that might be) has never been cleared up.

There's other things going on with Wanda elsewhere and I don't want to start tripping over that. I could easily see, and have considered, bringing her in for a guest shot. But a fixture? Yeah, that's what we need: more characters.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

then she basically is going to go to war with her father

Now that would be a story!

[blanchett]

Now that would be a story!

I'm sure he would write it well but I'm not sure he's saying that that's exactly what is going to happen or even if marvel would go along with that.

I think it's good that he is thinking about what he's going to do. That means he's likely to do something about her origins, as opposed to other writers over the years.

[jmc247]

To hell with that.

You want to turn Lorna into a redundent character where her view on Magneto are exactly the same as Wanda's historic relationship with him, but worse there would be nothing better then having Magneto murder her mother for a plotline.





Like the relationships above only worse forever.

If you want to turn 616 Magneto into Ultimate Magneto nothing would be better then showing Magneto is willing to cold bloodly kill a girlfriend 'because she left him' or whatever other tawdry reason.

[bongy]

To hell with that.

You want to turn Lorna into a redundent character where her view on Magneto are exactly the same as Wanda's historic relationship with him, but worse there would be nothing better then having Magneto murder her mother for a plotline.

I agree. I think part of what makes Lorna so dynamic to us fans is that she actually LIKES her father. She's anathema to Wanda and Pietro. By all accounts, she should be the favored child of Magneto but Marvel just doesn't want that to happen.

[salarta]

1) It's been eight years since readers learned that Polaris' mother died under suspicious circumstances. Now that's she's joining Marvel's premier detective agency, will she start to investigate it? Fans have been crying out for her definitive origin story for years…

Yeah, that's a tricky one, Derek. The real question is: was Magneto responsible for the death of her mother (and her mother's husband)? That would be a fairly explosive revelation, because if he is, then she basically is going to go to war with her father. Polaris has always had a ticking time bomb element to her psyche, and such a reveal would detonate it big time. So the answer is: it depends on whether Marvel would be up for that, and if Lorna as a character could survive such a discovery. It's something I've been kicking around, and I'm going to be making some decisions on that soon.

2) It was implied that Polaris retained her Pestilence powers in "X-Men: Kingbreaker." Gambit also retained his abilities and has been shown to be still battling his Death persona. Is Polaris still battling her Pestilence persona or do you see that as a non-issue?

A non-issue. She's got enough going on in her noggin without worrying about that.

3) It was great that Mike Carey laid some groundwork for Polaris' and Magneto's post-Decimation relationship, but with them on different sides of the Schism, will you be following this up?
Kinda depends on whether I pursue the storyline we were just discussing above.

5) I was surprised by how much Wanda worked with X-Factor in "Avengers: The Children's Crusade." Is there any chance she might become a fixture? She has a very undeveloped relationship with her sister Polaris, and her connection to Layla (whatever that might be) has never been cleared up.

There's other things going on with Wanda elsewhere and I don't want to start tripping over that. I could easily see, and have considered, bringing her in for a guest shot. But a fixture? Yeah, that's what we need: more characters.

Wow, I don't like ANY of those answers. If this is what Peter David has in mind, I consider my worries for how he's going to use her perfectly justified.

1) IF IT WAS HANDLED RIGHT, I MIGHT be able to go along with the idea of Magneto having killed Lorna's mother, and Lorna in turn having some kind of conflict with her dad. The trouble is, I can't see any real way for it to be handled right. The closest possible way would be if this conflict led to Lorna as the primary focus of a major X-men franchise storyline, and we know that's not going to happen when we have crap going on like Lorna being forced to stay out of next summer's crossover because of nostalgic bias against her despite her character development for the past decade.

I really, really doubt "Magneto killed Lorna's mom so now Lorna hates her dad" is going to lead to anything good, where Lorna would get to shine as her own character and a force to be reckoned with. Knowing how Marvel has treated her in the past, it'll probably just be part of an overall excuse to make her as much of an outcast failure within the Magnus family as they perceive her to be within the Marvel universe as a whole. So no, I consider that direction complete fail. Maybe a fake-out purely for the sake of drama where someone misleads Lorna to think something that isn't true, but that's about it.

2) Lorna doesn't need to necessarily struggle with a Pestilence personality per se, but I think completely ignoring her time as Pestilence at all is an awful way to go. Before she was sent into space, we got a tiny glimpse of all the possibilities for her as having been Pestilence. We could've had a whole story arc, or hell even a miniseries, that centered on her dealing with an anti-Apocalypse cult out to kill her. Instead, it became an excuse for Alex to swoop in to save the day and that's it, poof, suddenly we just pretend she was never Pestilence.

There are several reasons ignoring her time as Pestilence is a horrible idea. For one, it was one of the very few cases where she had a storyline that wasn't about her as Alex's trophy or Magneto's daughter (I like the latter, of course). It was a character development chosen entirely because of who Lorna is, not who she knows. Secondly, there's a lot of potential behind her having a secondary plague manipulation power. She just came back from space, she could very easily have non-lethal plagues (perhaps ones that stun enemies) or beneficial ones. It would be one of few ways for her time out in space to mean something. And third, as I said above, there's a lot of story potential there. Use it.

5) Yeah Peter David, that's just what X-Factor needs, more characters. That's why you passed on using Lorna and Alex again... oh wait, you didn't pass on either of them, did you? This answer is complete bull in my eyes. If he can pull Lorna and Alex back into his book, he can pull Wanda in too.

I think we all know what's really going on here, though. I don't know if it's Peter David of his own volition or acting at the behest of Brevoort or someone like him, but Peter David's answer to number 5 is obviously just continuing the nostalgic bias against Lorna's positive character development over the past decade. Wanda not being considered as a fixture for the book alongside Lorna comes down to "Wanda's too precious to regularly mingle with this nobody, Wanda's too good for her."


In short, I consider these answers to be in the completely wrong direction for Lorna, and they kill a lot of my interest in buying and reading X-Factor.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I agree. I think part of what makes Lorna so dynamic to us fans is that she actually LIKES her father. She's anathema to Wanda and Pietro. By all accounts, she should be the favored child of Magneto but Marvel just doesn't want that to happen.

Some fans also like her being the ultimate weapon to be used against her biological father. That's where an interesting dynamic can be created. I certainly don't think she would become a redundant character from that happening either.

[JeanGreyForever]

I agree. I think part of what makes Lorna so dynamic to us fans is that she actually LIKES her father. She's anathema to Wanda and Pietro. By all accounts, she should be the favored child of Magneto but Marvel just doesn't want that to happen.

That's my perception as well. Even in the UXM issue right before Claremont's return, we saw that Lorna was considered the heir of Magneto rather than the twins (which Wanda so no issue with)

[blanchett]

To hell with that.

You want to turn Lorna into a redundent character where her view on Magneto are exactly the same as Wanda's historic relationship with him, but worse there would be nothing better then having Magneto murder her mother for a plotline.

Like the relationships above only worse forever.

If you want to turn 616 Magneto into Ultimate Magneto nothing would be better then showing Magneto is willing to cold bloodly kill a girlfriend 'because she left him' or whatever other tawdry reason.

I think your ignoring the fact that Wanda has had a good relationship with her father at different points too. He reached out to her during the Scarlet Witch and Vision series, He was there for the birth of the twins. He reached out to her after her breakdown in the Avengers, she was very pro magneto then. I wouldn't be suprised if she ends up with a good relationship with him coming out of Children's Crusade. If Wanda comes out of the Children's Crusade with a good relationship if Lorna has one two then she'll be redundant again....or we could just assume that they are different characters, with different personalities, different histories and no matter what relationship they have with their father they are individual characters with individual values.

Magneto has killed in cold blood before. You say he wouldn't kill his girlfriend but justify him attempting to murder his only son? I don't think it gets more cold blooded than that. He's a dark character. Failing to acknowledge that lessens the impact of that character.

And I don't think marvel will go down that route anyway. I don't even think PAD will go down that route because if that's what he intends he just spoiled his story. He likes to suprise. I'd imagine we will get a fake out. It will appear he did it and then it will be revealed he didn't. That was, in my eyes always the intention with the magnetized wreckage.

Some fans also like her being the ultimate weapon to be used against her biological father. That's where an interesting dynamic can be created. I certainly don't think she would become a redundant character from that happening either.

Well the government considered that back in X-Factor. It was the run after David if I remember correctly. I think regardless of whether or not she gets used that way she can and possibly was designed originally to do this.

[Mitteloss]

I don't want to be too unsettled by PAD's response. I think he was responding to the question (which was cueing him) and not necessarily discussing plans.

As JeanGreyForever said, and this was settled to me in the recent Legacy arc, it would just not make sense for the writers to turn around and say that Magneto is responsible for her mothers death- it would be out of character as he already named her his heir in Genosha and was very honestly keen to rescue her in Legacy.

If he had killed Susanna... he would've avoided Lorna as soon as he found out she was his daughter.

In every opportunity he did the opposite. It should be pretty certain he didn't kill her mother, though given what we know, he is likely involved in the circumstances in some way as the plane pieces were magnetized.