CBR: When Words Collide - Jul 5, 2011

[CBR News]

Tim comes back from some time away with the New Mutants to share the life lessons he takes from the 100 issues of the original series, by the likes of Chris Claremont, Bill Sienkiewicz and Rob Liefeld.


Full article here.

[rescura]

Warlock is great.

[damienwhiter]

Co-incidentally I've re-read New Mutants 51-53 today and I do think NM 51 is one of thre best single issues of the book.

We do disagree a little over the strong and weak periods on the book, but I do remember Rob Liefeld's arrival being a shot in the arm.

I think the issue was the Inferno crossover. For years the sub-plots in the three X-Men (Uncanny, X-Factor and NM) books had been building to Inferno and after it happened all three books meandered. It wasn't until the arrivals of Liefeld, Lee & Portacio that the books saw a new direction.

From a craft/storytelling perspective the Simonson/Blevins Asgard storyline was better than the Cable storyline, but it lacked the urgency and excitement of Liefeld's arrival (the same could be said of the X-Factor Judgment War story by Simonson/Paul Smith and the seemingly endless Siege Perilous story in X-Men).

From a 2011 perspective it's hard to remember how fresh and exciting Liefeld's art was in the late 80's, particularly as he was focussing more on storytelling than in his 90's work.

[Wolf_Leader]

I probably read these at the same age, so they had a similar impact on my teen years. I might have similar opinions if I reread them all, but I remember at the time liking Warlock and even Bird-Brain. Maybe because of all the goofiness which appealed to me, but also because there were some serious stories there. The link between those two characters was Cypher, who was Warlock's BFF and died after getting shot trying to save Bird-Brain.

You know, these trips down memory lane are quite illuminating. While writing that I realised how I look at Beak and Angels flock of babies as a symbol of how Morrison ruined the X-Men. Maybe the New Mutants really was that bad during the middle stretch.

[rev sully]

Wow...and I just reread "God Loves, Man Kills" if we're talking the Claremont X-Men OGN's of the early 80s.
(ps...anyone wanna frak with Igor Kordey over Morrison's New X-Men should go read X-Treme X-men Vol. #5, "God Loves, Man Kills 2" written by Claremont, which had the Most New Mutants Scene when Logan calls Sam "Boy" and Sam informs Logan only his daddy calls him "boy"...you gotta read it but iDigress...I call Kordey "roughly-hewn" in New X-Men)
I read those unique OGNs in the early 80s as a kid. Both of 'em.. It was always weird seeing the New Mutants OGN. That was the Deep End of the Pool. And I LOVED the Classic Uniforms on the new cast.

I grew up on this. And this team always hung closer to the heart than even the New Teen Titans. Why? I remember Warlock fondly too and love the jar-Jar Juxtaposition. but the other half of Warlock you never mentioned was perhaps my favorite Marvel Universe Mutant Power Ever. Doug Ramsey. As a mutant power goes, I want Cypher's.

And you nailed it. Teenage Insecurity. Wow. An empathy machine? perhaps I should re-read the new Mutants as well and try to recollect the actual memory of How Many of These Did I Buy and Read. I remember X-FORCE #1 on the shelf.

I bought a frak-ton of New Mutants I think. I was always into it. I have to focus on the "when" though. I think I had a big crush on teenage Illyana then. I was so sad when they killed her off!

kriya shakti,
Rev Sully

Eric O'Sullivan
Boston, MA USA

[NickFury90]

Well, when I clicked on this article, I didn't expect to see Bill Siekiewicz shunned for Rob freakin' Liefeld, but the Internet is a crazy thing sometimes.

That said, I do like the last bit: But as it happens, and this happened when I read all the "Daredevil" comics for my discussions with Ryan Lindsay, now that I have read all the "New Mutants" issues, I feel protective about the characters. I can see how some readers write angry emails to creators or how message board posts are born. I normally don't read comics with that mindset, that notion that the characters must be presented a certain way, the way they were in the old days, but I can feel a bit of that creeping in when I think about current incarnation of "The New Mutants." How dare they do that to Sunspot? I might now ask. Or, how could they bring Warlock back, for the love of baby Jesus?

I usually roll my eyes at those fanboys and girls who get all riled up by this fictional character doing or saying something, and there reaction is "OMG he/she would never do/say that, this writer doesn't know what's he doing, kill me now". I just think if you that into comics and can't stand having characters not look, sound, and act exactly the way you like all the time, you should probably get out of the whole "I read superhero comics" hobby. But after reading the vast majority of Claremont's X-men, there's always that little voice in the back of my head reading X-men books today like, "Wait, would Storm really feel that way about Logan? What about that time she totally stabbed that chick back in the 1980s!?". Its an irrational, selfish little voice, and I try to ignore it, but its persistent. I just shake my head and think, "Goddamnit, now I'm one of those people too "

[semicyon]

I recently re-read the original run of the New Mutants, too. Mostly because it struck me how very familiar one of my new favorites, Avengers Academy, was. There were similarities in archetypes and themes from that first year or so of the New Mutants (Striker>Sunspot; Hazmat>Psyche; Veil>Wolfsbane). Of course, there are differences but, I think, mostly is a reflection of the different times/expectations/resources today's teens deal with, e.g. the way that the Avengers Academy teens find out and deal with their teacher, Tigra's, assault is very different than how the New Mutants handled Stevie Hunter's stalker, despite the similar initial reactions of the teens.

Another reason I re-read the original series was because I was greatly disappointed with how Claremont handled them in his recent New Mutants Forever mini-series. I wondered, how could the creator of these characters not get what made them an interesting read when I was their age (and, weirdly enough, I am now old enough to be their dad)? But, part of it is, like Callahan, the New Mutants (and the younger X-Men of that time) are one of the few characters I'm still protective of; they were the teen team when I was a teen getting into comics and the last time I was an irrational stereotypical Comic Book Fan was at the death of Cypher, particularly after hearing that he was eliminated because one of the creators found him uninteresting. It took twenty years but I am glad that today's creators finally 'get' what kind of stories Cypher's subtle powers are great in (weird to realize that I got a degree in linguistics, in part, because of my fondness for a comic book character).

And, a big thank you to Callahan for sticking up for Liefeld's New Mutants work. Even though I didn't care much for what was done with the X-Force concept in the long run, there really was a palpable excitement and revitalization of the comic when he got on board.

[colossusmorphlock]

love New Mutants, when I started committing wholly to really reading comics about 2 years ago (age 23, go figure) I really took to them and blasted through the issues.
Its really nice having someone agree with me on just how awful the book was when Sienkewicz joined, completely jarring, but gotta say I big time disagree on the Rob Liefield side, the book kinda turned into the same issue on repeat for the remaining issues and the first 20 or so issues of X-Force I have read, like pulling teeth to read!
And finally, Warlock is one of my all time favourite characters, never saw him as a Jar-Jar, he actually has a use for one thing!!

[PO!]

Ok Im really trying to understand some comments from the Article, specially when the Sienkiewicz issues were some of the best and thats exactly when the characters start to grow up in personality. If he is emphasizing so much the fact that he finally toke the time to read the book maybe it should be a nice detail to know that Warlock left at the end on the run when he was killed by Hodge during Extintion Agenda. I do think that he is missing the whole idea con warlock and Cypher as a team and as brothers. To love one issue just because Kevin Kowlan ( that I utterly admire for his work) was the penciler doesn't show much analysis on what the plot was about.
The Jackson Guice Issue are amazing they have one of the more human and interesting spotlights on the book going deeper into their personalities. I remember not liking those issues as a kid and I do remember loving them as an older reader. (check issues 41, 42, 44, 45 (amazing cover)
The Hellions might look like the evil version of the NM but iN a decade where black was black and white was white it was amazing to see a team of young kids that weren't all evil (some were even afraid of MAgik)

Louise Simonson arrival started to destroy the book. she got rid of Magma and Doug and brought horrible characters like BirdBoy and Gosamy (she had to make Warlock leave the book for a couple of issues...could you imagine both of them together? UGHx1000)

The Exterminators joining the team was a nice move but the kids not having a teacher or role model proved to be almost deadly to them in terms of plot and quality ( the asgard issues werent that bad but the arc was far too long and to loose Moonstar wasnt a good idea) The Cartoonish art did not help I agree or the fact that the book started to sound like POWER PACK.

I remember back when I was a kid going crazy for the Liefeld era, the uniforms the looks the new characters all looked amazing then Ive realized that that guy was destroying what remained of my fav book and turning it into something horrible called Xforce.

I wish Rusty and Skid would hav been used in a better way during their short period in the book, Same as the Hellions. But I utterly disagree when i comes to underestimating the Claremont era. its easy to mock his writing now but he really created characters that many years later other writter couldn't develop as deep as he did.

The NM earned a place in my heart like no other book has ever done in my life. I grow up with these characters and Im glad that they are back in their present book in good hands.

check my new mutants fan page in facebook, its pretty new.

http://www.facebook.com/TheNewMutants

[Gerry Alanguilan]

The New Mutants was one of my favorite Marvel series in the 80's, and it still remains as one of my favorites today. One time I had to sell my entire collection of comics. I didn't want to, but I had to. But over the years since then I've started recollecting them, and New Mutants was really the only one I tried hard to complete once again. And by complete I mean my favorite run of the book which goes from the Graphic Novel right up to around #54. I just didn't like the book very much after that.

I find I differ in opinion with regards to the weak and strong points of the series. I definitely loved the McLeod-Buscema days for sure. The splash page to issue #8 alone, with Wolfsbane sniffing around an incredibly lush foliage just goes to show how amazingly drawn these early issues were.

The Sienkiewicz issues definitely had their appeal to me as well. But I do understand how it can put off some readers. I had my wife read New Mutants from the beginning, and she loved reading it until she came to the Sienkiewicz issues. She said it became too dark, and too serious, too different in tone to what came before. She said the book stopped being fun.

After Sienkiewicz left, there was a period of time when this book truly shined, specially around the 40s where each each issue gave the spotlight to individual members. Issue #37 was an incredibly heartbreaking issue where we see, rather convincingly, Beyonder killing all the New Mutants. We knew they were coming back, but it was written so well that for a moment you truly felt it was the end. Issue #45, which I consider to be Claremont's commentary on the deleterious effect of X-Factor, was extraordinary and it still resonates with me today.

As much as I love Kevin Nowlan's work, I didn't like his work all that much on #51. He made the kids look too sulking and eyeless. I think I liked his work better earlier on Moon Knight, and much later on Batman and Jonny B Quick. I would have to choose a different book to consider the best drawn of this bunch. And I think it would have to be the tag team of New Mutants Special and X-Men Annual #9, illustrated by Art Adams.

I didn't like it when Louise Simonson took over. The kids had grown up quite a lot from #1 to #54. I don't understand it why from #55 onwards, they seemed to have regressed in maturity. Sam was once again a gangly unsure teener, a direct contrast from the confident, standing tall Sam of just the issue before.

The Liefeld era, I didn't like them at all. His work may be dynamic, but he's not in the same league of Jack Kirby, or even Eric Canete.

[ian33407]

...because after what you said about Warlock and Bird-Boy, I think we can just hang-out together (I know you're a married man, that ain't for what you could think)

Yes. Me too I'm still wondering how come such a character like Warlock. For what I've read he's just so innocent that it is almost heart-breaking, but I was asking myself the same question about the whole team since the very first issue. Really, what's the point with all of these characters.

Really edgy as a starting point than becoming the successors of so under-estimated, but so brave also, heroes like the X-MEN when really there's nothing that is predisposing you. The Hellions were great for that, they were all the NM weren't, AND the enemies. But really, what's the point ?

Then Bill Sienkiewicz blowed my mind, as I ain't surely the only one : The Bear Saga, Cloak and Dagger who made of Rahne and Roberto a totally unpredictable couple (as if they were seeing each other really for the first time only by being altered by C and D powers..But I disgress, but it 's still wonderful..) and of course the Legion Saga. And then it seem to me I started to understand the point.

I have to say that, even this young, I was already familiar with the works of Toppi, Battaglia and Breccia (and Paul Gillon too) who are IMHO influences that are never quoted about Bill S. but who seems just...dunno, flagrants. How surprized I was to see these aesthetics finally related to super-heroes ! And it worked wonderfully ! And Claremont was really inspired, so the point was that "you never know in the world of comics-books". Frank Miller was blasting everything with DD at more or less the same time, and now these pointless characters were just the best read I ever had. The point was "this could maybe happen to maybe any character (very useful for growing-up too) even the most obscure one could become mind-blowing if his environnement is used at his best (Miller) but he could also become the pretext for telling completely something else that what expected and really opening the gates for completely unexpected worlds " (resuming)

After that some issues about a Mutant Arena were a little difficult to stand, Bill S. being not at his best, in regards with what he opened his run, but it was another unexpected story-line...

So yeah the Claremont/Sienkiewicz are for a lot of reasons something important in my life, almost something to be pride being born during the XXth ,and that's why I'm militating for this crew to re-unite for a never-ending (ha ha, see ? that's my game too) NEW MUTANTS FOREVER run...I'm glad there's a new NM ongoing, but re-uniting the original rooster feels like a mistake, there's a enough of "new New Mutants" in the MU to make another interesting book. Wait and see. Though I'm glad Doug Ramsay is back (I have a pitch : "Doug Ramsay, agent of SWORD" !! Intergalactic drama where he ends-up as the Ozymandias of the MU and lead HYDRA -of course the serie stops and Warlock is sad...What do I win ?)

Now Bird-Boy. Brett Blevins' art is awesome. Weren't you a fan of H.G Wells "The island of Dr Moreau" ? I was. Would you expected to see it mixed with super-heroes ? Louise Simonson did it. Period. And gave a comics character the most sensed death in a comics world..

You can go crying alone in the dark now..

[boomerman]

I know this is all about personal tastes, but I do find it interesting, and odd, that you like the Liefeld stuff, but not the Bill Sienkiewicz stuff. To this day the Liefeld stuff is still polarizing (though I like it), and the Bill Sienkiewicz stuff is viewed largely as a high point of the book. I actually like both runs.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Is it possible that the author actually did read a lot of New Mutant comics, but then forgot them? I know that I watched Transformers cartoons for years, yet when I re-watched the series recently, all but a handful of moments and episodes seemed new to me.

The only logical conclusion is that over the course of 20+ years, I just forgot the episodes.

[wishlish]

You completely lost me at "Alan Moore and Ian Gibson's "The Ballad of Halo Jones," which is dreadful stuff". Really? It's not Watchmen, but it's a wonderful, if incomplete, story that I've found full of more heart and character than just about any New Mutants comic.

[Alex6166]

I came in after the Fall of the Mutants thing and read pretty consistently to the end. Really liked the series. I think I hated it when they got together with X-Factor then got separated again. But in retrospect, it's better for the stories. The Asgardian stories lost me a bit. Especially,w hen the art goes from Blevins to another artist whom I can't remember and then Liefeld took over for good.