Spider-Man as an Avenger

[Vic Vega]

Spider-man is not an "outcast" or "loner". As I pointed out before, he's teamed up with damn near everyone in the MU before. It seems some fans have this image of him as some lovable loser who never catches a break and is still a broke student pinching pennies and being hated by the public. Hate to tell you, but those days are long gone. That image is a misconception.

Pete went from being a married man that worked for Stark to being a single guy who takes photos for a tabloid rag. He's pretty well downtrodden.

Did being an Avenger take away from Beast being a mutant and X-man. Did living in the mansion and being on the premiere super team make him loved and accepted by a public and destroy the X-men's hated and feared by humainty image? Did being an Avenger make Demolition Man a celebrity and accepted. Did it kill Moon Knights street cred?

And someone explain to me why Luke Freakin Cage can be an Avenger and not be called a sell out or have his character questioned by fans. This was Mr "Hero for Hire" who was in it just for the money and now he's leading the Avengers? I don't see anyone on here complaining about that, but everyday someone is complaining about Spidey and Wolvie being on the Avengers. Come on.

Beast moved from the X-Mansion to the Avengers Mansion. Moon Knight HAS his own mansion being a Batman clone. Once Luke Cage partnered with Iron Fist he started making real money and moved his offices to midtown.

Pretty much nobody cares what D-Man does so it is not an issue with him.

You could do a non-underdog Spider-Man. JMS' Spider Man was not an underdog.

But Marvel clearly went in the other direction with the character.

I'm just saying be consistant.

[motteditor]

And someone explain to me why Luke Freakin Cage can be an Avenger and not be called a sell out or have his character questioned by fans. This was Mr "Hero for Hire" who was in it just for the money and now he's leading the Avengers? I don't see anyone on here complaining about that, but everyday someone is complaining about Spidey and Wolvie being on the Avengers. Come on.

Oh, I've complained plenty about Luke Cage. Someone who's in heroing for the money isn't Avengers worthy.

[celticguy]

Oh, I've complained plenty about Luke Cage. Someone who's in heroing for the money isn't Avengers worthy.

Avengers get paid out of the Stark Foundation (or they used to)

At one point it was $1,000.00 a week for active and $1,000.00 a month for Reserve members.

[ImmortalIronFist]

After reading 40 years of stories, the fact that he's still down-on-his-luck Parker just annoys the crap out of me. He should have used his brain to get a better job, or joined the Avengers earlier and gotten paid. There's nothing wrong with having a character support themselves.

[XPac]

Avengers get paid out of the Stark Foundation (or they used to)

At one point it was $1,000.00 a week for active and $1,000.00 a month for Reserve members.

That's the sucky thing for Peter and Luke Cage. 2 heroes that needed the pay check, and they join up right when the perks start drying up.

[celticguy]

That's the sucky thing for Peter and Luke Cage. 2 heroes that needed the pay check, and they join up right when the perks start drying up.

Yup unless the Trust survived Stark's troubles.

[celticguy]

After reading 40 years of stories, the fact that he's still down-on-his-luck Parker just annoys the crap out of me. He should have used his brain to get a better job, or joined the Avengers earlier and gotten paid. There's nothing wrong with having a character support themselves.

True lookl how much The Thing made thanks to profit sharing in the FF.

I really would to see some progess with Peter in regards to his smarts. Couldn't he at least work on the science section of the paper by now if they feel the need to keep him in the media.

With Great power comes great responsiblity, and he has a first class mind that he ignores.

[Herb Sewell]

I think having Spidey on the Avengers detracts from his everyman concept. It's hard to be considered an everyman when you're living in Avengers Mansion/Tower with a butler and hanging out with a living legend and one of the richest men on the planet.

He lived in the avenger's tower for a little over a year and it's been 3 years since he's lived there.

How come there is no mention of when he lived in a penthouse married to MJ when she was a tv and movie star? Crashing with Stark takes away from him being an everyman, but being married to a hollywood celeb with a deluxe penthouse in the sky made him a regular joe???

[dreyga2000]

His presence on the Avengers means a character who could actually get some development in this book, and who I can't read about anywhere else, won't be on the team.

Sorry, I believe this to be faulty logic... there is no cap on how many people can be on the Avengers team at any time other than the writers discretion. There has been instances where over 11 plus members were all on the Avengers active roster... As such one character's inclusion doesn't equal another disclusion it's all writers preferance...

[Jota]

It hurts Spider-Man's character to be an Avenger. That's why. It has nothing to do with whether or not he's "earned" the right to be an Avenger. I don't think a lot of people who are against him being an Avenger are thinking in those terms, like being an Avenger is something Spider-Man is unworthy of. It's more the opposite. Being an Avenger drags Spider-Man down.

This isn't the DCU. Marvel's top heroes, Spider-Man and Wolverine, aren't the top heroes inside the universe. It's not an insult to them. It's why they work so well. Some of the core elements of Spider-Man's character involve him being an outcast, an underdog and grounded in everyday life. Being an Avenger undermines all of that. It is fun seeing him with the New Avengers, but a lot of the fun and humor comes from how he clashes in that kind of environment with the big league heroes inside the Marvel Universe. He's nervously cracking jokes and making fun observations (or sometimes dramatic ones from his unique perspective). But that can only last so long. It only works so long as he remains an outcast and doesn't become a regular Avenger. Captain America, Iron Man and Thor should not be his shoulder-to-shoulder peers. Because then, all these Avengers become part of Spider-Man's support group. Seriously, how can he go through the troubles and drama of everyday life or of an underdog superhero with people like that on his speed dial? Does Hawkeye ever have to concern himself with things like a job, supplying his own arrows, a place to live, etc.? I know Cap, IM and Thor have their solo adventures, but they're not of the same type and often will involve each other. Yeah, some writers could find ways to work around that for Spider-Man. Those ways would end up being contrived as hell most of the time too. We briefly saw during JMS' run the effect being an Avenger can have on Peter's life. It was pretty drastic and interesting only in a short-term way.

Characters do grow and change, and that's fun. But there are different levels of change. When you get into the territory of changing the core principles of a character, you're screwing up that character. Giving Spider-Man a different job, a different home life/family dynamic, a different living situation, etc. Those can be big changes, but they don't really change the main points of his character. Turning Spider-Man into a different kind and level of hero... that does. It's definitely true that Spider-Man can be really fun on teams. But a lot of that comes from the fact that we don't see that a lot. He's a solo character at heart and should stay that way. It was fun having him be a New Avenger, basically when the Avengers were slumming. It's not as fun having him be a real Avenger. It's better for his character to go solo again.

There you go! I agree with every word in that post!

[Punchdrunk]

Doc Goblin nailed it

[OldSchoolfan]

At first I was sceptical of Spiderman being an Avenger. But there came that moment when Hawkeye wanted to kill Harry Osborne. Who had more right to take him out than Spiderman? Yet, Spiderman was very clear...we don't kill people. I don't think any one else in the Marvel U could've made that stick with as much meaning.
Unfortunately, we also have moments when every one else is fighting Dormammu and Spidey is reduced to getting slurpee's, so....

[The Black Guardian]

I don't get it either. It's not like other Avengers don't do solo work. If Cap, Tony, and Thor can be both, then why not one of the most likeable, personable, chummy guys around? What doesn't make sense, and never really did, was Spidey staying solo.

[Red Lotus]

Seriously, how can he go through the troubles and drama of everyday life or of an underdog superhero with people like that on his speed dial?

Spider-Man is already friends with every notable major hero in the Marvel Universe... Close family friend of the Fantastic Four...Buds with Daredevil... Pals with the X-Men... And has been a reserve Avenger for years...I don't see what changing him from reserve status to active status is really change about him...

Pete's not the type of dude that asks for handouts or favors... Nor does he feel "right" profitting fom his superhero status...I doubt he's going to start falling back on Avenger ties to solve all his life's problems...

Yeah I agree. Peter could easily donate his pay if they went back to paying avengers. There have been times when he has earned money saving lives as Spider-man and this has happen.

Peter is a guy who thinks its his fault because his bad guy was the one who caused the break out on the raft. He feels if its his problem then he should be the one to clean it up. This is like saying that Batman shouldn't have any problems in Gotham, because all he has to do is call the JLA. Yeah he can, but he never does.

[celticguy]

Sounds like we need another OMD to put Pete back in high school and wearing sweater vests to make people happy.