Spider-Man as an Avenger

[Nomads1]

EXACTLY. If you compare him on just strength, sure he looks underpowered. But, class 10 to 15 strength is nearly on par with Powerman/Luke Cage.

Ahhh, the eternal "How strong is Luke Cage?" debate. I wish Marvel would give some kind of consistent and definitive input on that. I've asked this question pleanty of times. Had come to the conclusion that he was in the 25 Ton range, but last time I was in an arguement about this, people were saying he was more to a 40 Ton range. Now you say around 15? And to think that he started out weaker than Spider-Man. I think, one day, I'll have to start a thread about this, maybe with a pool...

Peace

[Ziggy Stardust]

I say 15 for Spidey with the understanding that 20 is a GIVEN for Luke. But, Luke has been shown to be upgraded in strength/power at least twice to my knowledge and likely more.

based on his showing against Iron Clad alone, I'd put Luke more in the 40 to 50 ton range.

[Jota]

Ah. NOW we're getting to a point I've long mulled over. As much as Bendis' run was supposedly him just wanting to throw a team together of his "faves", he made sure to include at least Cap and Iron Man and then threw in some of Marvel's biggest cash cows to help ensure his success.

Would he have been as successful without those four on his team? I doubt it.

That's what pisses me of about the New Avengers, the cynical the team was assembled. Bendis wanted to put his favorites in the team, but he made sure he got the two biggest avengers and the two cash cows in the team, so it would sell, even though he had no desire to write them

[Aaric Rivad]

Short answer: He does nothing. He's been a horribly-underused character on the team.

And keep Amadeus Cho the HELL away from the Avengers. Unless it's a "Death Of" special.

[dkostus]

Spiderman, from a power stand point, actually isn't well-matched by anyone on the team. Go check out a Rumbles thread, but more imprtantly, even in story, is during Civil War when he took Starks armor apart on him with his speed and strength, and then in the big brawl when everyone watched him just cut loose flying all over the place with his own style that's a combo of strength, speed, agility, and precognition that is totally unmatched. (I believe there's a point in the battle where Reed and someone else are watching him and all they can say is "Spectacular..." "Amazing..."

Really, because of his speed and battle precog, and experience fighting against groups of individuals at a time, Spiderman is one of the true powerhouses on the team. Its just subverted by his personality.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Spiderman, from a power stand point, actually isn't well-matched by anyone on the team. Go check out a Rumbles thread, but more imprtantly, even in story, is during Civil War when he took Starks armor apart on him with his speed and strength, and then in the big brawl when everyone watched him just cut loose flying all over the place with his own style that's a combo of strength, speed, agility, and precognition that is totally unmatched. (I believe there's a point in the battle where Reed and someone else are watching him and all they can say is "Spectacular..." "Amazing..."

Really, because of his speed and battle precog, and experience fighting against groups of individuals at a time, Spiderman is one of the true powerhouses on the team. Its just subverted by his personality.

GREAT point. Despite his powers and intelligence, Peter always seems to defer to others and feel like he's not worthy of being on the team, let alone possibly one of the major players. He's has huge self-esteem issues that do not allow him to step up, unless he REALLY has to.

Dude's a veteran hero who has the respect of more of his peers than he realizes or allows himself to.

[deathcry]

Ahhh, the eternal "How strong is Luke Cage?" debate. I wish Marvel would give some kind of consistent and definitive input on that. I've asked this question pleanty of times. Had come to the conclusion that he was in the 25 Ton range, but last time I was in an arguement about this, people were saying he was more to a 40 Ton range. Now you say around 15? And to think that he started out weaker than Spider-Man. I think, one day, I'll have to start a thread about this, maybe with a pool...

Peace

Will the pool have a tiki bar perhaps?

[TheboyinShadows]

GREAT point. Despite his powers and intelligence, Peter always seems to defer to others and feel like he's not worthy of being on the team, let alone possibly one of the major players. He's has huge self-esteem issues that do not allow him to step up, unless he REALLY has to.

Dude's a veteran hero who has the respect of more of his peers than he realizes or allows himself to.

Gotto agree with this.

[Zak213]

I dont mind him as an avenger but i think he and wolvie should be benched for someone who needs the spotlight.

Spidey is doing ok.

[wayfarejourneyman]

I've been against Spidey as an avenger, simply because he has so much going for him that he is basically a solo act. You need out-right speedsters to match his agility, his precog makes hims very hard to hurt, he is decently strong, and smart enough to outwit mad scientists. Bring him in on the odd mission, sure I can see that. But a card carrying member -- no way.

Bringing him in on a core avengers team wouldn't be a bad idea, but you make cap effectively useless. Now, if you did an "avengers science team" made of of Spider-Man, Beast, Vision, and <instert PhD avenger here>, I would be all over that.

[RDMacQ]

Nothing he's useless in-story

Save for all those stories where he does make a difference.

[XPac]

That's what pisses me of about the New Avengers, the cynical the team was assembled. Bendis wanted to put his favorites in the team, but he made sure he got the two biggest avengers and the two cash cows in the team, so it would sell, even though he had no desire to write them

Yeah. Bendis has no desire whatsoever to write Spider-Man.

Lord only knows what sort of incriminating photos Joe Q had of Bendis to force him to write 100 plus issues of Ultimate Spider-Man all these years. Bendis clearly hates the character.

[XPac]

I've been against Spidey as an avenger, simply because he has so much going for him that he is basically a solo act. You need out-right speedsters to match his agility, his precog makes hims very hard to hurt, he is decently strong, and smart enough to outwit mad scientists. Bring him in on the odd mission, sure I can see that. But a card carrying member -- no way.

Bringing him in on a core avengers team wouldn't be a bad idea, but you make cap effectively useless. Now, if you did an "avengers science team" made of of Spider-Man, Beast, Vision, and <instert PhD avenger here>, I would be all over that.

Captain America is NEVER effectively useless on the team.

If nothing else, he's the head coach. You never have to worry about Steve in this regard.

[RDMacQ]

GREAT point. Despite his powers and intelligence, Peter always seems to defer to others and feel like he's not worthy of being on the team, let alone possibly one of the major players. He's has huge self-esteem issues that do not allow him to step up, unless he REALLY has to.

Dude's a veteran hero who has the respect of more of his peers than he realizes or allows himself to.

Exactly.

I'll never get this "He's not powerful" argument. The Avengers have had people like the Black Widow, Hawkeye, the Falcon, the Wasp, Ant-Man, Black Knight, Black Panther, and other non powered heroes, and Spidey is easily stronger than all of them. And he's faster, and more agile. Plus he's an inventive genius, who created his own gadgets and didn't need anyone to build them for him. Unlike a lot of the other Avengers who inherited or were given their gear by another source. Plus, he's got a lot more experience than a lot of other "veteran" Avengers as a superhero. He's more than worthy of having a place on the team.

[Codah]

Him catching all the New Avengers during the battle with Ragnarok was the only time him being an Avenger made sense to me. That was a great issue/ use of Spider-Man's powers. I still don't think him being an Avenger makes a whole lot of sense.