Spider-Man as an Avenger

[The Black Guardian]

Sounds like we need another OMD to put Pete back in high school and wearing sweater vests to make people happy.

Better yet: just make his costume a super-wedgie, pulled over his head and wrapped around his face. Then change his name to Spazzer-Kid. Oh, and strip him of his superpowers and make him clumsy. Instead of webs he can have snot. Seems that's what these types of people really want.

[Avenger08]

It's not a huge difference, and what you're saying just sounds stupid. How many heroes are in NY? Dozens. But since you're a kid I wont be too hard on you.

You realize there is a huge difference between your opinion and what is fact right? Does the fact that im a teenager make my opinion on the subject, which this freaking thread is about, any less valid.

And what you're saying is stupid. You discredit an opinion because you disagree with it. You're ignorant cause you dont get that this thread was asking the opinions of people on the subject.

And yea, there is a HUGE difference. The whole POINT of Spider-Man is that hes NOT supposed to be this big huge superhero. Hes supposed to be a hero centered in his home city of New York, not an interstellar travelling, international superhero.

[Herb Sewell]

And yea, there is a HUGE difference. The whole POINT of Spider-Man is that hes NOT supposed to be this big huge superhero. Hes supposed to be a hero centered in his home city of New York, not an interstellar travelling, international superhero.

Who's to say what his point is?

And yes, Spider-man is centerpiece of the Marvel universe which has overridden any city boundaries. Go read some old comics from his Marvel Team-Up days and you'll see him going into space, other dimensions, back in time teaming up with everyone from the Micronauts to the Silver Surfer. Trying to pin him down as some street level character like the Punisher is a little silly given his history.

[RDMacQ]

But that's also what potentially makes him useful.

He's the everyman's perspective in the world of what it's like to be an Avenger. He can experience it through his eyes.

In many ways, being on the Avengers could HELP Spider-Man's everyman status, as it better serves to contrast Peter's ordinary life with the Avenger's extraordinary ones.

Besides, I think that the "Spider-Man is an everyman" argument is bull, myself. He's sympathetic, but I don't think his life is representative of the "everyman." Especially not recently.

[RDMacQ]

You realize there is a huge difference between your opinion and what is fact right? Does the fact that im a teenager make my opinion on the subject, which this freaking thread is about, any less valid.

And what you're saying is stupid. You discredit an opinion because you disagree with it. You're ignorant cause you dont get that this thread was asking the opinions of people on the subject.

And yea, there is a HUGE difference. The whole POINT of Spider-Man is that hes NOT supposed to be this big huge superhero. Hes supposed to be a hero centered in his home city of New York, not an interstellar travelling, international superhero.

I think the "_____ character is supposed to be this way" argument is a pretty weak one, because there's no real way to prove that was the creators intent in creating him. Spidey being based out of New York doesn't mean he was always MEANT to stay in New York. Heck, that situation applies to a lot of Marvel heroes.

The only thing Spider-Man was supposed to be was a 7 page strip in the last issue of an anthology comic. Everything after that is just added on.

[XPac]

At this point, I don't think anyone can argue there is such a thing as a wrong setting for either Wolverine or Spider-Man.

On any given day, they can team up with any given hero in any given situation to face any given threat. On a given week, Spidey can spend Monday helping DD take down the Kingpin, Tuesday helping the Avengers save Asgard, and Wednesday selling hotdog on the corner to help pay the rent. Such is the life of the Amazing Spider-Man.

You can arguably attribute that more to them being cash cows than anything else, but the fact still remains that they can and they do.

[RDMacQ]

At this point, I don't think anyone can argue there is such a thing as a wrong setting for either Wolverine or Spider-Man.

On any given day, they can team up with any given hero in any given situation to face any given threat. On a given week, Spidey can spend Monday helping DD take down the Kingpin, Tuesday helping the Avengers save Asgard, and Wednesday selling hotdog on the corner to help pay the rent. Such is the life of the Amazing Spider-Man.

You can arguably attribute that more to them being cash cows than anything else, but the fact still remains that they can and they do.

Plus I think Marvel was a little more loose back in the day about what Spider-Man could or couldn't be. I think because he's become such a cash cow, there are those at Marvel that are mindful of altering the formula too much in fears that they may ruin the characters appeal. Hence the desire to follow the tried and true of what came before rather than actually try and do things a little differently than usual. However, when you look at Spidey's history, you can see a lot of situations that run counter to the way to the way that Spidey is argued that he is supposed to be.

[StoneGold]

In many ways, being on the Avengers could HELP Spider-Man's everyman status, as it better serves to contrast Peter's ordinary life with the Avenger's extraordinary ones.

Besides, I think that the "Spider-Man is an everyman" argument is bull, myself. He's sympathetic, but I don't think his life is representative of the "everyman." Especially not recently.

Nah, he's everyman, but that's his point in the Avengers. He's the common sense comic relief - the guy who doesn't really know what he's doing there, but he's going to suck it up and help save the day anyway.

[wayfarejourneyman]

Spidey is a great addition to the avengers -- one of the few people on the team who actually has problems. Bucky and Clint are both more or less baseline humans, but both are also far into spy/criminal suff that they are more or less heroing all the time. Spidey has to, you know, work, get a date, visit aunt may (mephisto damn her wrinkled old soul). Which is great, because he's actually a powered individual.

[Finganforn]

I think he is a great addition to the team, and that he actually fits perfectly and has great potential (not that he has been really used like that, oddly part of his potential as a team member was on CW, such a controversial event). Powerwise, and even moral wise, he is very unique, his spider sense, the fact that he is brilliant (when writers don't forget it) and also a considerably fast and powerful hand to hand fighter make him a good spy that is also good on doing some nasty damage, crowd control and taking some damage. He is one of those people you have to have, he can cover almost anyone who is absent, unless the task is really power, or level, specific.

Being an Avenger doesn't make him any less a Manhattan hero. It is not like he has to be at the Avengers HQ and be doing avengery things 100% of the time. Was it like that, Batman couldn't be on the JLA. And he is much more Gotham compulsive than Peter is with Manhattan, doesn't compare, but he still work on the JLA. Global crises, or some cases where Pete is one very well qualified member to go are situations where he would never say 'No, have to watch Manhattan, kthx bai'. There was one time he left a thief go when he could have stopped him/made the difference and that didn't end very well, it kinda marked his life too deep to forget.

[RDMacQ]

I think he is a great addition to the team, and that he actually fits perfectly and has great potential (not that he has been really used like that, oddly part of his potential as a team member was on CW, such a controversial event). Powerwise, and even moral wise, he is very unique, his spider sense, the fact that he is brilliant (when writers don't forget it) and also a considerably fast and powerful hand to hand fighter make him a good spy that is also good on doing some nasty damage, crowd control and taking some damage. He is one of those people you have to have, he can cover almost anyone who is absent, unless the task is really power, or level, specific.

Being an Avenger doesn't make him any less a Manhattan hero. It is not like he has to be at the Avengers HQ and be doing avengery things 100% of the time. Was it like that, Batman couldn't be on the JLA. And he is much more Gotham compulsive than Peter is with Manhattan, doesn't compare, but he still work on the JLA. Global crises, or some cases where Pete is one very well qualified member to go are situations where he would never say 'No, have to watch Manhattan, kthx bai'. There was one time he left a thief go when he could have stopped him/made the difference and that didn't end very well, it kinda marked his life too deep to forget.

That is a good comparison, and one that I was thinking of myself (but more in the vein of Batman being a "loner" and "outsider" yet still managing to be a vital member of the team). I don't think Spider-Man is limited to Manhattan by CHOICE, like Batman is with Gotham, but simply because of resources. In fact, I can see Spider-Man leaping at the opportunity to go on world spanning adventures with the Avengers since he doesn't get outside of New York all that often.

[motteditor]

How come there is no mention of when he lived in a penthouse married to MJ when she was a tv and movie star? Crashing with Stark takes away from him being an everyman, but being married to a hollywood celeb with a deluxe penthouse in the sky made him a regular joe???

This got lost in all the marriage hoopla, but I always thought the bigger problem wasn't that he was married, but that they made it so MJ was some international superstar. If she'd had the same kind of down-on-her-luck issues as Pete, I think they would have had fewer storytelling problems.

[RDMacQ]

This got lost in all the marriage hoopla, but I always thought the bigger problem wasn't that he was married, but that they made it so MJ was some international superstar. If she'd had the same kind of down-on-her-luck issues as Pete, I think they would have had fewer storytelling problems.

MJ wasn't an international superstar. She had a boost in her career, but that was because of the machinations of Jonathan Ceaser, a millionaire who was obsessed with MJ and wanted her for himself. Once MJ spurned his advances, Ceaser used his influence to ruin MJ's career so that she couldn't get modeling work, which eventually forced Peter and MJ to move OUT of that penthouse and into Aunt May's boarding home for a period. In the end, the only work MJ could find was as a soap opera actress. And sure, you could say that still makes her famous. But in reality, how many soap opera actresses does anyone know by name?

[CaptainOtter]

I'm not neccisarily against Spiderman on the Avengers. In alot of ways hes a logical addition. In terms of abilities, he fits in. He has amazing talents, strength, and speed. Compared to say, Hawkeye or several other heroes, he's qualified. In terms of character, he's qualified as well. He's probably more morally grounded than anyone on the team except Cap. And he's immensely popular. On paper, if I were to create a superhero team of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, he fits the bill pretty well.

But personally, I like spidey a bit more when he goes solo. I think it brings out the best in Peter, and how he gets beaten down but still has the happy go luck attitude. And also, the very imagery of him swinging through New York cant be translated to everywhere the Avengers go. I don't think his style matches perfectly on such a big scale superteam. His imagery, personality, and backstory work better when he's Spidey. When he's an Avenger, it feels like he should be on top. But thats not Spidey.

So yeah, Spidey the Avenger does make sense and works in many ways. But I just prefer it when he's in his own little world, doing Spidey-things. Either way works, really.

[vitruvian]

Avengers get paid out of the Stark Foundation (or they used to)

At one point it was $1,000.00 a week for active and $1,000.00 a month for Reserve members.

Which was pretty sweet ($52k) money at the point in the 1980s when this was established, considering you could also avail yourself of free room and board at the Mansion and avoid paying NYC housing costs. May have been tax free, too, don't recall for sure.

But nobody ever accused the Avengers of just being in it for the money that I can recall. It was just something that was done so that they could be heroes pretty much full-time.