11/12 Football Thread

[Puma]

World Class is when a player can go against the absolute best in the world, elevating his game outside his comfort zone (away from club play), make his team better, and lay it on the line when it most matters and make the game his; and do it consistently.

[Will M]

Definitely worth a punt. We're almost numb to disappointment at this stage.

My coupon is burst, to coin a phrase Not that I mind. Just got to hope Lithuania do us a favour, or the Spanish have the kind of game against us they had against the Swiss at the World Cup.

The game against Spain will be a really good test for our young side, if nothing else.

[shamone]

World Class is when a player can go against the absolute best in the world, elevating his game outside his comfort zone (away from club play), make his team better, and lay it on the line when it most matters and make the game his; and do it consistently.

thats a narrow definition. Messi and rooney compete against the best in the world, players and teams in the champions league.

[Puma]

thats a narrow definition. Messi and rooney compete against the best in the world, players and teams in the champions league.

If I am going to label someone World Class then yes, I am going to have a narrow definition. I refuse to cheapen the description.

[shamone]

If I am going to label someone World Class then yes, I am going to have a narrow definition. I refuse to cheapen the description.

so playing against the worlds best and excelling doesnt make them world class. Right. If world cup was pinnacle of the game in terms of ability maybe, but it isnt.

[Puma]

World Cup teams are made up of that nation's best players- a concentration of amazing players in one place at one time. If you can't see the difference between that and club play then we will never arrive on common ground and this conversation is pointless.

[shamone]

World Cup teams are made up of that nation's best players- a concentration of amazing players in one place at one time. If you can't see the difference between that and club play then we will never arrive on common ground and this conversation is pointless.

yeh a combination of a nations best players vs a team with no national barriers to selection. Look at the stongest team in international football. Spain. Selection dominated by two teams. Its commonly accepted that the world cup is not the best teams in the world. Anymore. Years ago when there was restrictions on foreigners playing in c.l it was. Now not so much. Are you saying messi and cron are not world class

[Will M]

So, if your national coach is bad and plays a system which doesn't get the best out of a player or his team then it's the player who is at fault and not the coach?

Whereas, as someone else pointed out, you can have a decent player and play to his strengths and get the most of him. A la Klose.

Even though Messi didn't have an outstanding World Cup, his quality was evident for all to see. Alfredo Di Stefano didn't play in a World Cup, but he's regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. I don't see anyone saying, well he was ok but he didn't win the World Cup did he? Because at the time he played, it really wasn't a big deal.

The World Cup is a good indicator, but it's not the only indicator of talent. Is Oleg Salenko really one of the most lethal marksman of all time because he got a Golden Boot? Of course not.

[mcgaffer]

Arsenal and Liverpool are going head-to-head in a battle to sign Chelsea's Salomon Kalou in a cut-price deal when the January transfer window opens.

Chelsea will attempt to lure Tottenham pair Gareth Bale and Luka Modric in a £60m raid.

Manchester City are willing to accept an initial fee of as little as £10m for Carlos Tevez in a desperate bid to get rid of the outcast striker.

David Beckham looks set to snub Spurs and QPR after Paris Saint-Germain officials let it slip that they are close to agreeing a deal with the former England captain.

PSG are also at the centre of a tug-of-war with Spanish side Valencia for Manchester United striker Dimitar Berbatov.

Liverpool are interested in Celtic youngster Ki Sung-Yeung, who is said to be keen to leave Parkhead after the club's poor start to the campaign.

Manchester United and Chelsea are paying close attention to Danish prodigy Nicolai Boilesen, who currently plays for Ajax.

Andrew Johnson has been told he can leave Fulham for about £2m if he fails to agree a new two-year deal at Craven Cottage.

Wayne Rooney may be spared the worst over his latest England red card, according to the referee who sent him off in the 2-2 draw against Montenegro. Germany's Wolfgang Stark said: "Maybe it will help Rooney the way he acted by accepting my decision without any fuss."

Arsene Wenger will nominate his successor when he decides to quit as Arsenal manager.

Sunderland manager Steve Bruce is set to be the first Premier League manager sacked this season. Martin O'Neill is already believed to have been approached to take over at the Stadium of LIght.

Chelsea chairman Bruce Buck says the Blues are drawing up a blueprint to meet the strict Uefa rules on spending through cutting their dependence on owner Roman Abramovich.

[shamone]

So, if your national coach is bad and plays a system which doesn't get the best out of a player or his team then it's the player who is at fault and not the coach?

Whereas, as someone else pointed out, you can have a decent player and play to his strengths and get the most of him. A la Klose.

Even though Messi didn't have an outstanding World Cup, his quality was evident for all to see. Alfredo Di Stefano didn't play in a World Cup, but he's regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. I don't see anyone saying, well he was ok but he didn't win the World Cup did he? Because at the time he played, it really wasn't a big deal.

The World Cup is a good indicator, but it's not the only indicator of talent. Is Oleg Salenko really one of the most lethal marksman of all time because he got a Golden Boot? Of course not.

or baros after his euro04 campaign.

[Aubergine~!]

World Class is when a player can go against the absolute best in the world, elevating his game outside his comfort zone (away from club play), make his team better, and lay it on the line when it most matters and make the game his; and do it consistently.

Got to disagree with the bit in bold as well. Club sides are simply better teams than international sides in general, for two reasons: they play together more, and managers can go out and buy players to plug holes in the side. You look at say, the England team over the past decade or so and the lack of a second class striker to play next to Rooney has been telling. If England were a club side, they'd have gone out and spent on a centre forward, and not worried about the country's not producing great strikers.

Take the comparison of Barcelona and Spain as an example. Looking at the non-Spaniards in their respective starting lineups and their Spanish NT counterparts:

Casillas < Valdes
Alves > Ramos
Messi > Alonso
Abidal > Capdevilla

That's without even mentioning that Barca's bench blows away even Spain's. Not worrying about nationality means club sides put together stronger squads. IMO most top clubs sides would dominate most top international sides, and IMO beating top club teams is a fair bit harder than beating top international teams.

Also, that definition limits players from weaker footballing nations. Someone like Ryan Giggs was certainly considered world class for several seasons, but never really had a chance to shine at the World Cup/Euros because the rest of his team simply wasn't very good.

IMO World Class means you're a unanimous choice for a World XI (or at a stretch in as 2nd choice backup). It's a very subjective definition, but that's pretty much the nature of the term.

[Puma]

IMO World Class means you're a unanimous choice for a World XI (or at a stretch in as 2nd choice backup). It's a very subjective definition, but that's pretty much the nature of the term.

Okay. I can see your argument but I believe a world class player makes those around him better by his presence and that is most often shown in national team play.

By that definition Rooney would not be a 'world class' striker. Messi and CR would be 1 and 2. Rooney would be in the current top five but I wouldn't list him 1 or 2.


Which is what I think started this conversation.

[mcgaffer]

Northern Ireland manager Nigel Worthington is to step down from his position after Tuesday night's final Euro 2012 qualifier against Italy.

[mcgaffer]

Paolo di Canio unwittingly completed the town's half marathon after losing his bearings on the fun run course.

The 43-year-old Swindon Town manager was supposed to sound the horn to start Sunday's main race before completing the two-mile short course.

But the Italian took a wrong turn and ended up finishing the full 13.1 miles in one hour 49 minutes - 36 minutes behind race winner Dave Roper.

"I couldn't stop, there was a challenge," he told BBC Wiltshire.

[mcgaffer]

Real Madrid are ready to offer striker Carlos Tevez an escape from his Manchester City nightmare, with the Premier League club seeking at least £35m.

Manchester City will allow Tevez to join Real Madrid but only in a player-plus-cash deal for Angel Di Maria, who has been interesting Chelsea.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger is set to recruit another Spanish prospect, Jose Rodriguez, after setting up a deal with his club Real Madrid.

Chelsea are leading Manchester City and Arsenal in the hunt for Real Madrid's 15-year-old striker Jose Angel Pozo.

Bayern Munich want Chelsea striker Didier Drogba on a free transfer.

Tottenham are going up against Newcastle in a bid to sign Blackburn's versatile forward Junior Hoilett.

Manchester United are facing competition from AC Milan in the race for promising Santos midfielder Paulo Henrique Ganso.

Chelsea are ready to enter the chase for Lazio's highly rated Romanian defender Stefan Radu.

Tottenham are plotting a move to lure Manchester United defender Rio Ferdinand to White Hart Lane.

Blackburn Rovers co-owner Balaji Rao is paying the expenses of three fans who made the trip to see their team in Pune, India.

St Johnstone's Derek McInnes and former Hibernian boss John Hughes are on Bristol City's five-man shortlist for a new manager but are competing with former City player Mark Robins, Sean O'Driscoll, who recently left Doncaster Rovers, and favourite Dave Jones, formerly of Cardiff City.

Uefa claims it will put an end this week to the legal wrangling over Sion's attempt to be reinstated into the Europa League at Celtic's expense after the Swiss club were thrown out for fielding ineligible players.

Manchester City outcast Carlos Tevez has been soaking up the sun on a golf course in Argentina while team-mates wave goodbye to summer temperatures in Britain.

A football fan has made a 1,800km round trip from Italy to watch Ebbsfleet United.