Meanwhile... Pt. 1

[dan bailey]

Wait, what'd I do?

Cei-U!
I mean specifically?

You breathed.

[berk]

V started when Moore was writing for 2000AD and Warrior, well before he started writing for DC. The genesis of V went much further back, to Moore's earliest work attempts in the mid 70s. There's a clear influence from Night Raven, but overall I can't see any way that you can say he was weaning himself from super-heroes before he'd significantly played with super-heroes.

Yeah, that's what I thought, but was too lazy to look it up to make sure. My basic point was that I'm at a something of a loss to explain the superhero trappings present in V, since they seem completely unnecessary to the story.

The Guy Fawkes mask didn't originate with V. And Gibbons has claimed that the use of the mask, cape and hat were his suggestions.

The mask and cape didn't bother me that much - you could make a case for that with the concept of the Guy Fawkes imagery as symbolic rebel - and the emotionless anonymity of the mask made for a pretty memorable visual effect. It was the superpowers V supposedly had that felt out of place to me. Like Dan, I forgot all about them until I re-read it a few years back instead of seeing the movie, upon which my reaction was, "Oh yeah, forgot about that bit. Never did understand why Moore wrote that in."

[Slam_Bradley]

The mask and cape didn't bother me that much - you could make a case for that with the concept of the Guy Fawkes imagery as symbolic rebel - and the emotionless anonymity of the mask made for a pretty memorable visual effect. It was the superpowers V supposedly had that felt out of place to me. Like Dan, I forgot all about them until I re-read it a few years back instead of seeing the movie, upon which my reaction was, "Oh yeah, forgot about that bit. Never did understand why Moore wrote that in."

I'm going to have to do a re-read because I have no memory of any hint that the Larkhill experiments gave him any superpowers.

[berk]

I'm going to have to do a re-read because I have no memory of any hint that the Larkhill experiments gave him any superpowers.

My memory is hazy on the point as well - I think largely because it's such an irrelevant detail. I couldn't swear to it, but I think it's just mentioned in a flashback somewhere and doesn't play much of a role thereafter.

[Cei-U!]

You breathed.

I hope you're happy, dan. You made me cry.

Cei-U!
And I'm supposedly the mean one...

[The Confessor]

What is it exactly that you find nonsensical about the Ultimate comics line/universe? I haven't read many myself, but they seem straightforward and comprehensible to me....

(not wanting to speak for dan, but just offering my own take on it...)

Straightforward and comprehensible, yes...but just not the real Marvel Universe. The whole Ultimates line is like one giant "What If..." as far as I'm concerned. I'm only interested in the proper 616 Marvel Universe, as created by Lee, Kirby, Ditko etc, way back in the early '60s. Except no substitutes!

[The Confessor]

I'm going to have to do a re-read because I have no memory of any hint that the Larkhill experiments gave him any superpowers.

My memory is hazy on the point as well - I think largely because it's such an irrelevant detail. I couldn't swear to it, but I think it's just mentioned in a flashback somewhere and doesn't play much of a role thereafter.

Not far out super-powers like flying, but I'm pretty sure (without checking) that the hormone injections he was given at Larkhill gave V enhanced reflexes, somewhat greater strength, higher resistance to pain and increased mental abilities. I'm pretty sure that's also true of V in the movie.

[Chris N]

berk -- my new best friend.

Sooooooo much nicer than mean ol' Cei-U! (especially when musical taste is added into the equation).

What I'm hearing is still that you don't want to see Avengers because it cast a black man.

tsk tsk tsk

[dan bailey]

(not wanting to speak for dan, but just offering my own take on it...)

Straightforward and comprehensible, yes...but just not the real Marvel Universe. The whole Ultimates line is like one giant "What If..." as far as I'm concerned. I'm only interested in the proper 616 Marvel Universe, as created by Lee, Kirby, Ditko etc, way back in the early '60s. Except no substitutes!

That's pretty much my take. I mean, I'm extremely fond of the Marvel Adventures titles I've read ... but those are theoretically foir younger readers. There's already a line for the rest of us. It dates back to 1961.

[dan bailey]

What I'm hearing is still that you don't want to see Avengers because it cast a black man.

tsk tsk tsk

Actually, I don't want to see Avengers because of Marvel/Disney's callous disregard for the creators who made such cash cows possible. It wouldn't matter if every member of the cast was as white as the attendance for the ceremonial cross-burning after a Mitt Romney rally. There's also the little fact that I tend not to much like superhero movies, for whatever reasons.

And, as it happens, the Nick Fury that the aforementioned creators came up with happens to be white. If that offends you, it's something you'll have to take up with Stan Lee &, if you've got access to a good Ouija board, Jack Kirby.

Similarly, a few years after that they created a character called the Black Panther. He happens to be black, as I suppose the name implies (though the Black Cat isn't black, so I guess that's not exactly guaranteed). I'd find it equally absurd for him to be portrayed by, I dunno, Johnny Depp, which I'm sure also makes me an unregenerate racist.

[dan bailey]

I hope you're happy, dan. You made me cry.

Cei-U!
And I'm supposedly the mean one...

I love it when a plan comes together.

[Chris N]

I'd find it equally absurd for him to be portrayed by, I dunno, Johnny Depp, which I'm sure also makes me an unregenerate racist.

You couldn't picture Johnny Depp as the king of an African nation?

tsk tsk tsk

[berk]

I didn't even like it when they cast a blonde guy as James Bond. The actor won me over once I saw Casino Royale, but I still think they should dye his hair black. It's just the way James Bond is supposed to look. Granted, the physique of all the Bond actors has been a lot beefier than he's described in the books, but that's harder to change.

But for me it's the overall impression that's more important than just the visual alone. For example, when Idris Elba was cast as Heimdall in the Thor movie, my main worry was that he'd sound like an American guy from the 'hood. As it turned out, he delivered one of the best performances in the movie, though in a smallish role. In fact - and everybody might laugh at this - I seriously think they should have cast him as Thor. If Olivier can play Othello, I sure they could have figured something out so that the visual wasn't too far removed from the long-haired blonde guy we all know from the comics.

Daniel Craig, just remembered his name.

With Samuel Jackson, I think the main problem is that he's gotten to the point where he's just playing Samuel Jackson in everything, so that's a distraction from the character. It's as much to do with the way he talks as the appearance. To me it's like if you cast 50-Cent as the Thing: underneath all that orange, he's not going to sound the way I think Ben Grimm is supposed to sound.

[adam_warlock_2099]

(not wanting to speak for dan, but just offering my own take on it...)

Straightforward and comprehensible, yes...but just not the real Marvel Universe. The whole Ultimates line is like one giant "What If..." as far as I'm concerned. I'm only interested in the proper 616 Marvel Universe, as created by Lee, Kirby, Ditko etc, way back in the early '60s. Except no substitutes!

I think the fact that, while I have read little outside of Ultimate Spiderman, I find the series different in a positive way in comparison to 616 Spiderman, I'll be incurring the wrath of many here. 8-) Not better just different, and that different appeals to me more than 616. Outside of that I haven't read much Ultimates other than some issues of FF for Thanos appearances.

[CromagnonMan]

i saw Avengers, it was really good for what it was. although the movie snob in me disagrees! But altogether this is how a superhero movie should be done, though i do feel theyve got some pretty weak actors in the main roles. Captain America looks laughable.

no doubt its like the new Star Wars for little kids, so cant hurt Marvels long term entertainment-peddling ambitions.