All-purpose news and politics thread

[king mob]

It's very easy to scapegoat corrupt politicians in Greece for lining their pockets.

But all of the money they pocketed only makes up for the tip of the iceberg of Greek debt.

A lot of the money they borrowed went to making expensive gifts to the electorate - from a ridiculous early retirement age, to an insane percent of well-paid government employees to the Olympics.

Which is exactly not what's happening here with our Olympics, and yes it's easy to blame politicians but it's a damn good place to start.

A much larger percentage of the Greek populace than just the corrupt ruling class enjoyed things that a country that produces so little and has so few natural resources should have made possible. And as long as they did, they kept said ruling class in power.

And there's the catch of democracy. People will vote for parties if they make people wealthy, and equally they'll vote for parties who'll tell them they will make things better, but I'm finding some of the venom being thrown at ordinary Greeks to be amazingly distasteful and downright nasty. This idea that people should vote for what economists want is downright scary as well.

[king mob]

The BNP weren't going to last. The candidates they attract aren't exactly top-drawer.

The problem with the BNP and the one main reason behind the collapse that Hod was right to point out was Nick Griffin. He's become toxic to the BNP because he's (insanely) seen as a moderate, not to mention being just a bit shite however the rise of the EDL and the adopting of BNP-lite policies by the Tories, Labour and UKIP hasn't helped either.

Is UKIP particularly far-right? They seem like slightly nuttier, one-issue versions of the Tories a bit like the Greens are to Labour.

I can't recall anything really appalling said by any of their members in the recent past.

There's this recent gem, or this,, or the fact they count Christopher Monckton as one of their leading lights, or the fact they supported Geert Wilders.

They're not the BNP, but they help contribute to pushing two of the main three parties further off to the right, while the other one just ignores it.

[king mob]

Unless Britain differs from the rest of the world drastically, the real problem is sexual abuse within families and "paedophile gangs" are about as common as serial killers.

The facts are there gangs of men grooming girls, and as this piece in the Guardian makes clear, we shouldn't ignore it, or try to brush it under the carpet as many people are trying to do. This might not be to the same scale as other types of sexual abuse but it's a problem in poorer northern English cities, and it's helping give fuel to the likes of the EDL if we try to downplay it.

While we're on the subject, Nick Griffin is being investigated for Tweeting the verdict before it was announced.

[king mob]

Actually, we can talk quite well: neither of those parties has been elected to Commons. That's more important than the council seats the BNP gained (which they've lost most of, they're down to three seats). Golden Dawn can have a say in national policy now, they can claim legitimacy (0 to 21 seats in one day).

And Golden Dawn is worse than UKIP. I don't like UKIP and they've gone some total cunts in the party and, as Ian shows, a lot of bigger cunts voting for them, but they aren't openly running on white power ideologies. Golden Dawn are an EDL who can now claim a democratic mandate.

The EDL don't want an electoral mandate as that's not what they want, and yes, Golden Dawn are a nasty bunch of fascists but again, this is what you get if you allow free democratic voting. We've seen the BNP win in elections, UKIP and some of the more dubious Respect members gain seats at a local level.

It also ignores that the Crown Prosecutor who re-opened the case - apparently as soon as he took the job and heard of it - is a fucking Asian man called Nazir Afzal.

(That's the other real problem - the CPS first knew about the gang's victims in 2008, but their man ruled that the victim would not be seen as a "credible" witness by a jury and let it go, making the crimes go on longer. Azfal has said she was credible and the original lawyer is being retrained, so this is a fuck-up)

Why this isn't a bigger scandal puzzles me, and it's not because it's a dreadful case of sustained abuse, or that police forces don't collate data, or that the far right are jumping up and down with joy, or that a section of liberal and left wing types are trying to downplay it, but it's for the reasons you give. These crimes could have been stopped before they did and that's just a fuck up of extraordinary scale.

[king mob]

Surveys suggest that UK companies are actually optimistic about the economy.

Really? I spend my days now being driven into depression trying to convince companies to take on young people on £2.60 an hour and being told they can't afford it.

[dupont2005]

“I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.“

-Barack Obama
http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/201...iage-equality/

[Jeff Brady]

Well I'll be damned.

[dupont2005]

It's exactly what I speculated would happen yesterday, although I thought he'd wait until after the election to say it.

[Michael P]

You couldn't have run that through a couple more drafts, Mr. President?

[dupont2005]

And my Facebook wall just blew up about it. Gonna have to keep an eye on Gallup now.

[Vibranium]

It's exactly what I speculated would happen yesterday, although I thought he'd wait until after the election to say it.

same here....that probably took away a healthy chunk of support

[Paradox]

Eh, not likely. Just a few on the fence.

[dupont2005]

same here....that probably took away a healthy chunk of support

Last I checked his disapproval rating among Democrats was kind of high, hopefully this will help. His approval rating with Republicans was higher than expected, but they aren't going to vote for him. He and Romney are neck and neck right now in approval ratings, Romney slightly in the lead a month ago. I don't know what this will do, but I expect it to shake things up a bit one way or another.

[cactusmaac]

Is that in constant dollars?

I don't think adjusting for inflation would make a huge difference. Data isn't available for that in any case.

But here's the graph rebased to 2002 which gives a better picture of what happened.

[mikekerrIII]

Well I'll be damned.

I guess after long enough the fence get uncomfortable to sit on. Good for him