All-purpose news and politics thread

[Gryphon]

The Bahrain protests have been focusing since day one on politics in all their rhetoric, not the Sunni/Shia divide (and they weren't all Shia's). Things are getting more sectarian now, but that's a result of the regime and the Saudis doing a crackdown and scaremongering about Iran.

Hmm. Ill take your word for it.

[Cavemold]

Even more evidence to pull out completely ..... These Soilders acted on thier own, why they did this is still a mystery.

[Iangould]

See, I don't remember ever saying that the violent history of the Middle East is completely their fault. I actually DO remember stating something about the Crusades, and the centuries of violence that were brought on my European, specifically the Catholic Church, interference. Many of the problems that exist there, and have existed there in the past, are due to outside influences. To my knowledge, I never suggested otherwise. You made that conclusion up all on your own.

Ecept that you have still failed to prove that the middle east's history is anymore violent than the history of any other region of the world.

Or for that matter, that the Middle East (except when invaded by foreign troops) is any more violent today than other parts of the world.

Yes, the average media coverage of the region would suggest otherwise but that says more about the media than about reality.

[Iangould]

Seems slightly less like a political revolt than a tribal conflict. To me at least.

When one ethnic or religious group monopolizes power, calls for democracy are inevitably seen as tribal.

[Iangould]

Some Afghan witnesses to the massacre of Afghani civilians in Kandahar are claiming there was more than one shooter involved.

However, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable especially in a case like this where people are awoken in the middle of the night by gunfire.

Forensic examination would likely reveal if all the bullets came from the same gun but that may not be possible here since, again according to unconfirmed witness statements, the bodies may already have been burned.

link

[Iangould]

I think we all know the answer to this question. The fact that you are making such a big deal out of something no one has even suggested makes me wonder.

You obviously haven't read Cavemold's comments about incidents involving Afghanis killing US personnel and how they prove it's a filthy shithole of a country full of subhuman savages.

[Vibranium]

When one ethnic or religious group monopolizes power, calls for democracy are inevitably seen as tribal.

I wasn't trying to make this a political thing....just a basic human rights thing that they are stoning teenagers...and have been stoning women almost forever

I think it's a cultural thing that needs to be addressed, people need to see for themselves that everyone should be equal.....men, women.....granted we still have that as a social problem here in the first world nations, but at least everyone has the same basic legal rights....in some of these areas of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and so on, women are considered property and a baby vessel

that's not cool

[Iangould]

The post you replied to was actually about a totally different story about anti-government protests in Bahrain.

I wasn't trying to make this a political thing....just a basic human rights thing that they are stoning teenagers

Allegedly stoning teenagers.

Ask yourself why the Gawker article omitted the fact that the Iraqi governemnt says nothing of the sort happened.

Then ask yourself why you didn't check for the original source of the story rather than simply accepting the Gawker version.

Oh and the Bahrain story matters: if the middle east is somehow uniquely violent and the Bahraini protests are just one religious faction fighting another then it's much easier for western governments to do nothing.

[Vibranium]

I think a number of factors have lead that part of the world to being "uniquely violent", as you put it...Islam fundamentalists, different tribes still carrying grudges from more than a century ago, a rotating door of government despots and dictators....when was the last time any of these countries had a leader who wasn't a total hard line crazy or just wanted to keep building "presidential palaces"?

[beetlebum]

I think a number of factors have lead that part of the world to being "uniquely violent", as you put it...Islam fundamentalists, different tribes still carrying grudges from more than a century ago, a rotating door of government despots and dictators....when was the last time any of these countries had a leader who wasn't a total hard line crazy or just wanted to keep building "presidential palaces"?

You just live to say stupid things now don't you?

Just when I thought it was safe to take you off ignore.

[GozertheGozarian]

You just live to say stupid things now don't you?

Just when I thought it was safe to take you off ignore.

It'll never be safe.

[Iangould]

I think a number of factors have lead that part of the world to being "uniquely violent", as you put it...Islam fundamentalists, different tribes still carrying grudges from more than a century ago, a rotating door of government despots and dictators....when was the last time any of these countries had a leader who wasn't a total hard line crazy or just wanted to keep building "presidential palaces"?

Look anywhere in Africa and you'll see the same only worse.

Tell me, other than Assad and Ahmadinejad (who is not actually an Arab althouh Iran gets roepd in every tiem "Arab" human rights abuses are being condmend), how many Arab rulers can you actually name? (Without using wikipedia) Do you know when they took power? How they took power? Can you give examples of them being "hard line crazy"? Can you give examples of how many palaces they've built?

Up until about 20 years ago, you could have said the same thign about most of Latin america and South East Asia. Hell, you could STILL say that about several parts of South East Asia.

Tell me, when was the last time you saw a news story about the small-scale war being fought by Thailand and Camboida over a religious site? If that were going on in, say, Egypt and Libya it'd be front page news, because the news media knows that feeding and reinforcing the existing biases of its reader is the easiest way to keep them reading.

Islamic fundamentalists? Guess what, Hindu fundamentalists probably kill more people every year than do all the Islamic fundamentalists combined.

Back in the late 1980's and early 90's I was studying Asian Studies. Day after day, very intelligent and very well-educated academics - people who were senior advisers to both the Australian and US governments - would tell us that democracy was "inconsistent with East Asian cultural values" and that the Taiwanese, South Koreas, Filipinoes et cetera didn't really want to be free. It was just a small minority of west-influenced troublemakers who were making a disproportionate amount of noise.

That belief influenced decisions like Australia's recognition of Indonesia's annexation of East timor and America's accetpance of the widespread use of torture by successive South Korean dictatorships.

[Cavemold]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/11/world/...c=world&page=1


Speaking off middle east violence ... From Gaza to Israel.

[Goggindowner]

See, I don't remember ever saying that the violent history of the Middle East is completely their fault. I actually DO remember stating something about the Crusades, and the centuries of violence that were brought on my European, specifically the Catholic Church, interference. Many of the problems that exist there, and have existed there in the past, are due to outside influences. To my knowledge, I never suggested otherwise. You made that conclusion up all on your own.

And just so we are clear, violence is inherent in human beings. No racial or ethnic group has any more of that in them than any other group. I don't think any one here has claimed otherwise, so what is your problem?

Ecept that you have still failed to prove that the middle east's history is anymore violent than the history of any other region of the world.

Or for that matter, that the Middle East (except when invaded by foreign troops) is any more violent today than other parts of the world.

Yes, the average media coverage of the region would suggest otherwise but that says more about the media than about reality.

I haven't "proved" it, because that isn't what we are even talking about. It never was. You're pulling all this out of nowhere. The only thing I have said, or anyone else, is that the Middle East has a long history of violence. That's it. You have some how twisted that up into a racially motivated attack. Get over yourself.

[Vibranium]

posters here seem to want to pick fights....I wasn't trying to start anything, just have a conversation