All-purpose news and politics thread

[Grigoris]

Here's another one from crazyville:

Islamists vow to stop Lady Gaga in Indonesia

The FPI (Islamic Defenders Front) and other right-wing groups have been on a rampage in Indonesia against minority religious groups over the last couple of years, aided by compliant police and a friendly national government. Here's what they say of their latest target:

'We will stop her from setting foot on our land. She had better not dare spread her satanic faith in this country,' FPI Jakarta chairman Salim Alatas told AFP. 'Her style is vulgar, her sexual and indecent clothes will destroy our children's sense of morality. She's very dangerous,' he said.

The nutty Christians couldn't stop her in Seoul. We'll see what happens with her rabid fans in Indonesia.

[Paradox]

I never buy this kind of thing about intentionally "controversial" musicians anymore, ever since someone "tipped off" religious groups about Marilyn Manson, and I figured out that it was probably MM's publicity agent that did it.

[Spike-X]

The Log Cabin Republicans aren't too happy with President Obama's support of marriage equality.

Obama Announcement Is Cold Comfort to LGBT Americans

(Washington, DC) – Log Cabin Republicans respond to President Barack Obama’s latest evolution on the freedom to marry.

“That the president has chosen today, when LGBT Americans are mourning the passage of Amendment One, to finally speak up for marriage equality is offensive and callous,” said R. Clarke Cooper, Log Cabin Republicans Executive Director. “Log Cabin Republicans appreciate that President Obama has finally come in line with leaders like Vice President Dick Cheney on this issue, but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”

Mourning the passage of Amendment One. And, er, which party was it that supported that particular amendment? Which party was it that supported anti-gay initiatives in every state they were introduced and passed?

And wasn't Cheney so brave to come out in favour of marriage equality, once he was out of office where he couldn't actually do anything about it?

[Charles RB]

Bloody hell, Obama! I wasn't expecting to see that last night.

Romney Reacts: I'm Still Completely Against Any Relationship Rights For Gays

Bloody hell, Romney. That's exactly what I expected to see.

yes, Golden Dawn are a nasty bunch of fascists but again, this is what you get if you allow free democratic voting

This is true, but twenty one seats in one go? These sorts of parties getting results at all is a shame to any Allied nation from WW2, but that big a leap is taking the piss. The people who voted for that deserve all the vitriol they get.

Why this isn't a bigger scandal puzzles me, and it's not because it's a dreadful case of sustained abuse, or that police forces don't collate data, or that the far right are jumping up and down with joy, or that a section of liberal and left wing types are trying to downplay it, but it's for the reasons you give. These crimes could have been stopped before they did and that's just a fuck up of extraordinary scale.

At the very least, the public should know why the victim wasn't considered a "credible" witness for juries by the first lawyer. The public are the juries. If it turned out that the victim was considered too "chavvy" to look good to juries, that'd be something we need to have a discussion about.

PASOK gets to try next and when they almost inevitably fail, there will be new elections which will probably result in a further deadlock.

If there isn't deadlock, who the heck are they going to vote in?

[king mob]

Bloody hell, Obama! I wasn't expecting to see that last night.

Basically Obama brings the US up to speed with most other Western countries and you've got bigots proclaiming this is the DEATH OF MARRIAGE.

Bollocks, I was speaking to hotel owners across the Midlands yesterday and I'd say 70% openly advertised the fact they hold civil ceremonies and blessings for same sex marriages. The world hasn't ended, nor has marriage but the idea Obama might lose because of this is frankly mental.

This is true, but twenty one seats in one go? These sorts of parties getting results at all is a shame to any Allied nation from WW2, but that big a leap is taking the piss. The people who voted for that deserve all the vitriol they get.

As do people who voted BNP, or UKIP, or Tory, or Labour or even a wanker like me who thought the Lib Dems were a nice idea. That's the catch with voting in that you'll always have people voting for the 'wrong' party, or in this case you have extremists gaining a foothold because people are utterly desperate, but we can't be smug about the Greeks because it could very easily happen (and has) happened here, not to mention a number of Westernised countries who've had nasty bits of work like this in their respective parliaments.

At the very least, the public should know why the victim wasn't considered a "credible" witness for juries by the first lawyer. The public are the juries. If it turned out that the victim was considered too "chavvy" to look good to juries, that'd be something we need to have a discussion about.

I never normally agree with Julie Bindel, but this piece this morning gives a wee bit more background.

[king mob]

I'm fucked off to the eye teeth of people slagging off the youth of this country. Every day I speak to kids and try to help them but there are either no jobs, or employers able to afford to pay more than the shite minimum wage of £2.60for 16-18 year olds, or in the rare occasions when good apprenticeships are made available, we get 1500 kids after 28 positions.

So this idea that kids today are lazy, or that all you need is just to work hard and everything will be fine is frankly insulting bollocks. It's a tragedy to see a generation being utterly wasted and there's little being done by private companies to help, while government just make things so bloody hard that it's designed to put people off because of the hoops you have to jump through.


That's better, I needed that....

[Iangould]

If there isn't deadlock, who the heck are they going to vote in?

There was all of about 3% between New Democracy in first place and PASOK in third plsce, that system where the largest party gets an extra 50 seats means any of the three largest parties in this Parliament could emerge as the largest party.

I suspect that having failed to form a government, the Left Coalition will lose votes to PASOK. But that's just a gut feeling based on no polling.

A lot will depend on turn-out. The election before this one turnout was 70%, this time it was 65. I can see the downward trend continuing meaning the Communists and Golden Dawn do better in the next election. Equally, I can see peoplr being appalled that Golden Dawn did as well as it did and turning out in higher numbers to vote them out.

So its a crap-shoot but my gut feeling is New Democracy and PASOK mught just get the extra couple of seats they need.

[Spike-X]

Seems it's not just the Catholics; ultra-orthodox Jews are also subject to immense community and religious pressure to cover up child sexual abuse within their community.

Abuse victims and their families have been expelled from religious schools and synagogues, shunned by fellow ultra-Orthodox Jews and targeted for harassment intended to destroy their businesses. Some victims’ families have been offered money, ostensibly to help pay for therapy for the victims, but also to stop pursuing charges, victims and victims’ advocates said.

That is inexcusable. This criminal behaviour needs to be tried and punished as such.

While some ultra-Orthodox rabbis now argue that a child molester should be reported to the police, others strictly adhere to an ancient prohibition against mesirah, the turning in of a Jew to non-Jewish authorities, and consider publicly airing allegations against fellow Jews to be chillul Hashem, a desecration of God’s name.

I would like to think that, if there was a God, this is not the way he would want people going about things.

[StoneGold]

Seems it's not just the Catholics; ultra-orthodox Jews are also subject to immense community and religious pressure to cover up child sexual abuse within their community.



That is inexcusable. This criminal behaviour needs to be tried and punished as such.



I would like to think that, if there was a God, this is not the way he would want people going about things.

And it's been going on for decades. See: Richard Belzer.

On the plus sides, conservatives are now letting in gay rabbis.

[Libaax]

Basically Obama brings the US up to speed with most other Western countries and you've got bigots proclaiming this is the DEATH OF MARRIAGE.

Bollocks, I was speaking to hotel owners across the Midlands yesterday and I'd say 70% openly advertised the fact they hold civil ceremonies and blessings for same sex marriages. The world hasn't ended, nor has marriage but the idea Obama might lose because of this is frankly mental.



As do people who voted BNP, or UKIP, or Tory, or Labour or even a wanker like me who thought the Lib Dems were a nice idea. That's the catch with voting in that you'll always have people voting for the 'wrong' party, or in this case you have extremists gaining a foothold because people are utterly desperate, but we can't be smug about the Greeks because it could very easily happen (and has) happened here, not to mention a number of Westernised countries who've had nasty bits of work like this in their respective parliaments.



I never normally agree with Julie Bindel, but this piece this morning gives a wee bit more background.

Yeah its more abnormal,sad to me that there is such big deal made of in US that a president says he supports gay marriage.

When i saw it on news i didnt even react, it is something should for granted there is right for gay marriage. I dont care how many bigots there are!

[Grigoris]

Here's a great analysis of the Greek political situation and its potential outcomes by Paul Mason: Greekonomics

After going through the unlikely political coalitions that could result from the next election, he states:
"One route out would be the EU effectively designing, from above, an escape route for the Greek mainstream parties – completely rewriting the terms of the second bailout to give Samaras or Venizelos something to come back with – a piece of paper – saying: we saved the country from collapse, again, and this time we really did get the Germans/French to shoulder the pain. This would most probably take the form of “Public Sector Involvement” – ie a writeoff of Greek debts to the ECB and IMF.

A second route out would be some form of soft, presidential coup (I am not advocating it!). That is, the parties effectively realizing that to be in power is to commit political suicide, connive in the prolongation of a presidentially-appointed technocratic government which takes the most contentious decisions on privatization, immigration, cuts etc. But that government would still be working to an EU/IMF designed script, and if the script leads to catastrophe then it simply opens the way to a decisive, populist swing by the electorate to the left or right. (In this regard, the experience of Hungary’s technocratic government, which led to Viktor Orban, and the Carlos Mesa government in Bolivia, which led to Morales, are worth looking at.)

The problem is, time marches on. And the Greek economic story is not just a question of designing a strategy, it is an execution story: that is it relies on relentless pursuit of goals and targets – whether they’re ND/PASOK goals or SYRIZA/KKE goals – by a civil service and a set of ministers who can actually rule. It will be very hard for a technocratic government to pull the levers of power because so much of Greek politics has been based on patronage.

So we are back to the same problem that has dogged Greece. It cannot stay in the Euro without abiding by the rules. And the rules, as currently designed, will force the economy into a downward spiral and destroy social cohesion. Unless the EU/IMF take some kind of initiative that allows some form of viable coalition to emerge to implement some kind of “Plan B” you will sooner-or-later have a debtor-led default on your hands and most likely a prolonged social conflict."

[Gryphon]

Seems it's not just the Catholics; ultra-orthodox Jews are also subject to immense community and religious pressure to cover up child sexual abuse within their community.



That is inexcusable. This criminal behaviour needs to be tried and punished as such.



I would like to think that, if there was a God, this is not the way he would want people going about things.

Emphasis on ULTRA-orthodox Jews. These are the extremists and do not represent all orthodox jews. They certainly dont represent myself.

[Iangould]

Germany is edging towards some sort of growth strategy for Europe.

The problem is that the proposals - speeding up disbursement of EU regional funds; extending by a year or two the timetable for Eurozone member states to get budget deficits below 3% of GDP, allowing higher wage growth and inflation within Germany, cutting central bank interest rates - might help France, Spain and Italy but they're too minor to really have much of an impact on Greece.

[Gryphon]

Quick question. I dont want to go back so many pages. Has there been any discussion of the gun walker scandal?

[Spike-X]

Emphasis on ULTRA-orthodox Jews. These are the extremists and do not represent all orthodox jews. They certainly dont represent myself.

Absolutely.