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  1. #1726
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    I picked one out of a pile at random, it turned out to be WONDER WOMAN #287 from 1982. It was a pretty forgettable tale by Marv Wolfman, and its sole purpose seemed to be to hype the New Teen Titans. Story involved Doctor Cyber kidnapping Wonder Girl; to free WG, WW would have to give herself up to trade bodies with Cyber. Denny O'Neil's old stooge Doctor Moon made an appearance. It was a very lame action-opus,in which both WW and her guest-stars were cardboard heroes. The oddest element was that Cyber suddenly had occult powers that gave her control of WW's invisible jet-- though at no other time did Cyber use anything but techological wizardry.

    Anyone else see Cyber play in Doctor Strange territory? Maybe the occult bit came out of some writer-artist misunderstanding...

  2. #1727
    Modus omnibus in rebus Roquefort Raider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    Just read Crystar #11. My recommendation: don't. How this reached 11 issues before being canceled is beyond me.
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  3. #1728

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    Ostrander's Suicide Squad.
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  4. #1729
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
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    I would pay good money (assuming I had any) for someone to explain the plot of the last four issues of the original Night Force to me in a way that made sense. I'd hoped the 20+ years since I'd last read it would prove I was just too young or unsophisticated to get it but apparently not. Some of the sloppiest plotting/scripting Marv Wolfman ever did, a major disappontment considering how very good the earlier issues were and further proof that comic writers should not be their own editors.

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  5. #1730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cei-U! View Post
    I would pay good money (assuming I had any) for someone to explain the plot of the last four issues of the original Night Force to me in a way that made sense. I'd hoped the 20+ years since I'd last read it would prove I was just too young or unsophisticated to get it but apparently not. Some of the sloppiest plotting/scripting Marv Wolfman ever did, a major disappontment considering how very good the earlier issues were and further proof that comic writers should not be their own editors.

    Cei-U!
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    I don't remember them after all this time, but I wonder if the fact that the series was cancelled had anything to do with the incoherence of those last few issues: maybe Wolfman had to tie things up faster than he'd intended, or something

  6. #1731
    Frugal fanboy Cei-U!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    I don't remember them after all this time, but I wonder if the fact that the series was cancelled had anything to do with the incoherence of those last few issues: maybe Wolfman had to tie things up faster than he'd intended, or something
    I'm sure you're probably right but it doesn't make it any less frustrating to read.

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  7. #1732
    Veteran Member AdamYJ's Avatar
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    I'm reading Showcase Presents Justice League of America vol. 1. Picked up for $5 on clearance at my comic shop. As most people know, the stories and characterizations are kind of so-so. Each story is basically a series of three interrelated team-ups. What strikes me though, is the villians that appear. In Silver Age comics you sometimes get characters and teams who fight random assortments of alien invaders and gangsters and only occasional super-villians (Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, The Atom, etc). These characters usually end up having Rogues Galleries that are built up over decades or not at all. Other times, you get characters who have an assortment of name villians built up really quickly over the beginning of their career (Flash, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Hawkman, etc). I expected more of the former, seeing as the League's gallery of rogues rarely gets much in the way of -props. Instead, it was more like the latter. Right from the beginning you get Starro, Weapons Master, Dr. Ivo and Amazo, Despero and Kanjar Ro in pretty rapid succession. Later in the book, there's Dr. Destiny, Prof. Amos Fortune, Felix Faust and Dr. Light (granted, some of these characters aren't in their greatest form yet). Yet, you almost never see these characters in Justice League stories anymore and rarely do fans seem interested in them. Instead they want characters like Darkseid, the White Martians or Prometheus. Why is that? Is it because the nature of Justice League stories has changed?
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  8. #1733

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamYJ View Post
    Yet, you almost never see these characters in Justice League stories anymore and rarely do fans seem interested in them. Instead they want characters like Darkseid, the White Martians or Prometheus. Why is that? Is it because the nature of Justice League stories has changed?
    I think it's because of powers creep. As each new writer takes over from the last, they often have a tendency to try and outdo the last, which has led to characters becoming more and more powerful over time (see: Wolverine regenerating form a single atom during Civil War). A side effect of this is that some of the older menaces just don't feel like they could present a challenge to the characters any more, so we end up with a JLA that can only be threatened by giant universe-ending threats. I mean, I love the Royal Flush Gang, but the way the JLA and other big superheroes are portrayed these days, I think Snapper Carr could probably defeat the Royal Flush Gang single handedly.

    It's almost impossible to have regular supervillains any more it seems. I mean, once upon a time, Thor had trouble defeating Cobra. And he was almost taken down by a bunch of nameless Soviet soldiers. Can you imagine something like that now?
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  9. #1734
    Veteran Member AdamYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    I think it's because of powers creep. As each new writer takes over from the last, they often have a tendency to try and outdo the last, which has led to characters becoming more and more powerful over time (see: Wolverine regenerating form a single atom during Civil War). A side effect of this is that some of the older menaces just don't feel like they could present a challenge to the characters any more, so we end up with a JLA that can only be threatened by giant universe-ending threats. I mean, I love the Royal Flush Gang, but the way the JLA and other big superheroes are portrayed these days, I think Snapper Carr could probably defeat the Royal Flush Gang single handedly.

    It's almost impossible to have regular supervillains any more it seems. I mean, once upon a time, Thor had trouble defeating Cobra. And he was almost taken down by a bunch of nameless Soviet soldiers. Can you imagine something like that now?
    That's true. And the villians rarely get power-ups the way that the heroes do. The most notable exception among the League's enemies is Despero, who had one story back in the '80s which had the sole purpose of upgrading him. Also, one of the strange things about superhero comics is that power and efficacy are generally defined by popularity. Most super-heroes start out on a pretty even keel. Someone becomes the greatest and the strongest not by any defined writing so much as it is by how much the readers like them and by their staying power.

    Also, there's now a tendency to want the whole team to fight together in big battle scenes. In the '60s, every story was a series of two or three man team-ups.
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  10. #1735
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamYJ View Post
    That's true. And the villians rarely get power-ups the way that the heroes do. The most notable exception among the League's enemies is Despero, who had one story back in the '80s which had the sole purpose of upgrading him. Also, one of the strange things about superhero comics is that power and efficacy are generally defined by popularity. Most super-heroes start out on a pretty even keel. Someone becomes the greatest and the strongest not by any defined writing so much as it is by how much the readers like them and by their staying power.

    Also, there's now a tendency to want the whole team to fight together in big battle scenes. In the '60s, every story was a series of two or three man team-ups.
    To make a related point, most of the early JLA foes are "gimmick-villains"-- a type which has almost totally fallen out of favor. Ironically, a lot of this stems from comics falling under the long shadow of Jack Kirby's 1960s work, though Kirby was probably just as gimmick-happy as Julie Schwartz in terms of playing with weird, baroque inventions for the kid-audience.

  11. #1736
    Veteran Member AdamYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothos View Post
    To make a related point, most of the early JLA foes are "gimmick-villains"-- a type which has almost totally fallen out of favor. Ironically, a lot of this stems from comics falling under the long shadow of Jack Kirby's 1960s work, though Kirby was probably just as gimmick-happy as Julie Schwartz in terms of playing with weird, baroque inventions for the kid-audience.
    Gimmick villians are kind of a DC Comics standard, though. I mean, look at the RGs of The Flash and Batman.

    You know what would have been a cool idea before the whole "New 52" business, if the Injustice Gang came back but rather than a goup of foes from individual character RGs, it was a group of the early JLA villians banding together to take down the League once and for all. It could be, like, Despero, Prof. Amos Fortune, Amazo, Dr. Destiny, Kanjar Ro, Weapons Master, Dr. Light and Felix Faust. Just one big story to put those guys back in the limelight for a little while. It wouldn't work now, because they'd be likely just be facing those villians for the first time.
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  12. #1737
    Senior Member pmpknface's Avatar
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    Prompted by a Comics Should be Good aricle I re-read BLACK HOLE by Charles Burns. Still great stuff.
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  13. #1738

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    Received today and read immediately DC: The New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke. I will just say that for anybody who is a superhero fan and particularly a DC fan -- and even more particularly a JSA or JLA fan -- this is an absolute must read. It's hard to describe, but it's like halfway between Watchmen and Marvels. It has some similar themes to both, with amazing art by Cooke and appearances by all sorts of awesome DC characters you wouldn't expect. I was floored to discover that the opening chapter of the entire series focuses on The Losers, for instance. The series is a great Elseworld's look at, basically, the end of the Golden Age (which here -- as in real life -- is caused by a McCarthy-style government crackdown) and the subsequent beginning of the Silver Age (ending with a tribute to Brave and the Bold #28).

    It's absolutely top notch, up there with stuff like Marvels, Watchmen, The Golden Age or Kingdom Come, but with arguably the best art of all of them. Jumps right onto my all-time favorites list.

    Not to mention it features maybe the best version of Wonder Woman ever:



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  14. #1739

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    A couple more full-page images from Darwyn Cooke's DC: The New Frontier.

    Hal Jordan and Carol Ferris:





    Batman battling Superman:




    The Justice League of America:

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  15. #1740
    Cute.5 Aaron King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    A couple more full-page images from Darwyn Cooke's DC: The New Frontier.
    I really love the art in that book but eventually got rid of it because I was always sort of bored with the overarching story.

    I kept the issue with the Martian Manhunter "origin" where he's watching TV to learn about humanity, though. That's one of my favorite comic sequences. It also has that awesome back cover (I think) with J'onn standing in slacks and a rumpled shirt and tie, illuminated by the glow of the television.
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