Best picture yet of what relaunch means?

[PA_Kid]

So with a few more interviews we seem to be getting much better info on what the relaunch means. Check these out:

Tim Drake is a perfect example. Yes, he figured out Bruce’s secret identity and yes he became Robin and yes things happened in his past that prompted him to move on from that role and become Red Robin. How long ago was that? What brought him from there to issue one of Teen Titans? I’d like to leave it vague enough that long time fans can take comfort in knowing a lot of the stories they loved still happened…and a lot of new readers (or fans who haven’t read the book in five or ten or twenty years) can sit down with issue one and feel they haven’t missed out on several decades of continuity with these characters and this world.

Similarly, Superboy comes to Teen Titans and his own series with a lot of his D.C.history in place. He still showed up shortly after the Death of Superman, he is still the clone of Superman and Lex Luthor. How we reconcile his past with the opening issues of Teen Titans and Superboy? That, I’m afraid, has to remain vague for now (it is bad enough if someone in the audience shouts out the ending of the movie — imagine how much more depressing it would be if the writer shouted out the end of the movie four months before the movie was released!).

Are there changes and trims and tweaks — in some cases total re-imagining of characters? Yes. But, you’ll find, even with those characters, 95% per cent of them are totally recognizable. (Bart isn’t a serial killer sentenced to the present from the 30th Century. Cassie is still the daughter of archeologist Helena Sandsmark.)

There's been a lot of discussion and worry about this, about what used to be as opposed to what is. I don't think I'm erasing much of anything. That said, Catwoman is still Selina Kyle and she still puts on this cat suit and she steals things. Beyond that, how she got here, what she's done before is less of a concern than the stories we are telling right now. But I don't think anyone is going to read, not just mine but any of the books, and truly feel like we're undoing everything. That's not what we are trying to do. We're trying to move forward and it isn't a reboot. It's a first take on everything. Some things have been rejiggered and some things have been re-clarified as we go through; some things will be eliminated, but for the most part I don't think anyone is going to come in and say, "Oh no, it's a whole different thing!" Selina is not 50 years old and blonde and living in Russia and an alien -- she's Selina Kyle. She's Catwoman, she's stealing things in Gotham City. Again, I don't think anyone will feel that we're taking a big departure from what was. And not just me, for any of the books.

It's not an origin story, but the approach is, as if we're meeting this guy for the first time. He's already Hawkman. He's already lost the love of his life. It took me several months to work through his initial arc. It was very, very hard work. He's setting up new roots in NYC. I'm establishing a supporting cast of characters. Some are human, some are more than human. Some friend, some foe. I didn't feel I had the luxury of a great rogues gallery, such as the likes of The Flash or Batman. I need to make challenges for Carter Hall/Hawkman from the ground up.

My first priority was to introduce a character who will eventually be his nemesis. His arch-enemy. I'm very excited about that.

Sounds to me like where ever possible they are trying to stay vague and let it be implied that the stories we've read in the old continuity are in play until something specifically rules them in or out.

I'm sure continuity nuts are still going to have a field day with it as specific participants in older events appear to never have been there - but personally as long at they keep it straight and the core character in question is keeping his or her life-changing events, I'm optimistic.

I guess some of it depends on what you view the significant events for the character. For Tim Drake I see discovering Bruce's ID, becoming Robin, his father's death, Bruce's death, and becoming Red Robin that most important pieces - Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, joining the Titans, trying to clone Conner, and Kissing Cassie are less so to me (though others may disagree).

[jade_nova]

This sounds confusing. They want to do new beginnings but they want to keep aspects from the older stories around even though they aren't in continuity anymore. It sounds like the post-Crisis debacle all over again.

[Belldeap]

I do not believe Batman is intended to be in his 20's. SUperman is the first hero, but those early stories of him are being written in flashback. What I mean is, he was the first hero, but its not like he is just starting now as the first hero. This doesnt eliminate the JSA because wasnt Superman an original member? Batman is said to be starting the JLA 5 years before current time, but that doesnt mean he wasnt a superhero before then. I think it is still a safe assumption that Batman is in his 30's and his timeline is mostly intact.

[PastePotPete]

What exactly was the "post-crisis debacle"? I got into comics in the 90s so I'm unfamiliar.

I understand that that said "debacle" arose from Crisis eliminating some character histories and not others. But how did this become a problem?

[Jody Garland]

For a good example, Hawkman appeared in Invasion!. But they later said, no, he hadn't came to Earth yet despite being somewhat important in Invasion.

Anyways, stuff like this makes me wonder if the reboot is tied to Flashpoint heavier than people think. I'm still thinking certain titles are set on another Earth.

[KevinTBrown]

What exactly was the "post-crisis debacle"? I got into comics in the 90s so I'm unfamiliar.

I understand that that said "debacle" arose from Crisis eliminating some character histories and not others. But how did this become a problem?

DC didn't reboot everything post-Crisis. They only rebooted certain characters (i.e. Superman and Wonder Woman). When they did that, it dominoed. Then it made, for an example, Legion of Super-Heroes a problem with its origin because Superboy was no longer in continuity. So now they needed to fix it. And then with JLA, WW was no longer a founding member, so now they needed to fix that.

Ad infinitum.

It really made things much more complicated than it needed to be.

[Superbeast]

My take so far: the last 5 years of Batman happened, but not exactly the same. The last 5 years of GL happened exactly the same. Everything else? Fair game.

[Nevets F]

DC didn't reboot everything post-Crisis. They only rebooted certain characters (i.e. Superman and Wonder Woman). When they did that, it dominoed. Then it made, for an example, Legion of Super-Heroes a problem with its origin because Superboy was no longer in continuity. So now they needed to fix it. And then with JLA, WW was no longer a founding member, so now they needed to fix that.

Ad infinitum.

It really made things much more complicated than it needed to be.

Poor Donna Troy and Power Girl.

[Just Endless]

My take so far: the last 5 years of Batman happened, but not exactly the same. The last 5 years of GL happened exactly the same. Everything else? Fair game.

What would you change, in those last 5 years of Batman? Just curious, it's one of my favorite runs, anywhere.

I think DC did a great job with titles, but this looks like it will trip over it's shoelaces RIGHT INTO ANOTHER CRISIS.

[Superbeast]

What would you change, in those last 5 years of Batman? Just curious, it's one of my favorite runs, anywhere.

I think DC did a great job with titles, but this looks like it will trip over it's shoelaces RIGHT INTO ANOTHER CRISIS.

Nothing really except the whole Spoiler/Steph fake death crap and Red Hood/Jason Todd deciding to dress up like the Punisher's albino cousin with a dildo for a head.

However it looks like Babs was never Oracle, the BoP never existed and Tim Drake may have been the Bat computer geek from all appearances. So obviously some retcons are going in there.

[Bamf25]

So this is what they are saying in breif. Nothing is being erased or reset, we will just not be referencing the past stories directly from this point forward. This way old reads can still love their old stories, and new readers will not be left out. All stories and origins going forward will superceed (read retcon) what happened before, but if things are not specifically spelled out, old readers can assume they are as before. If we do change something, that will be the new cannon. Old stories specifically referenced will therefor become official connon at that point.

Well that is how I read it.

[PastePotPete]

DC didn't reboot everything post-Crisis. They only rebooted certain characters (i.e. Superman and Wonder Woman). When they did that, it dominoed. Then it made, for an example, Legion of Super-Heroes a problem with its origin because Superboy was no longer in continuity. So now they needed to fix it. And then with JLA, WW was no longer a founding member, so now they needed to fix that.

Ad infinitum.

It really made things much more complicated than it needed to be.

Oh, so they felt they had to write stories with the sole purpose of explaining these inconsistencies?

That doesn't really seem like a debacle to me. I think they should have just ignored the inconsistencies where they could.

Why is it important whether or not Wonder Woman helped found the JLA?

And with the Legion, why not just change the team's inspiration from Superboy to Superman and call it a day?

This is a debacle?

[superchick]

Oh, so they felt they had to write stories with the sole purpose of explaining these inconsistencies?

That doesn't really seem like a debacle to me. I think they should have just ignored the inconsistencies where they could.

Why is it important whether or not Wonder Woman helped found the JLA?

And with the Legion, why not just change the team's inspiration from Superboy to Superman and call it a day?

This is a debacle?

Its important for Wonder Woman's status at the heart of the DCU.

Its not about inspiration. Superboy and Supergirl were members so all those stories had to go or change.

To fix those Legion stories we got Pocket Universe Superboy which also gave us the Matrix Supergirl who started the whole mess of continuity because Supergirl became a protoplasmic entity from sub universe that merged with Linda Danvers and made her an angel. WHAT? And to make matters worse kara then shows up. First as a fire entityguardian angel/imaginary friend/Linda's saviour and then as actual pre-crisis Supergirl before her debut in 1959

Its why the new reboot confuses me. The 00's DC is characterised by Geoff Johns fixing COIE.

[MTL76]

That doesn't really seem like a debacle to me. I think they should have just ignored the inconsistencies where they could.

...

This is a debacle?

I agree. Most casual readers wouldn't even have noticed them. Editorial is the party calling attention to them.

They've said the retcon is also to show the heroes as younger and elss experienced... but if they are keeping all of the back stories then how are they younger? All they have to do is ask the writers to write the heroes the way they want; every new writer on Batman puts his/her own stamp on the guy, how is this any different?

I understand what's also gained is a big spike in interest from shuffling up the titles and creative teams and putting out a ton of #1 issues, but this also could have been done without a "reboot"... in quotes because at this point it's anyone's guess what it means.

[PastePotPete]

I agree. Most casual readers wouldn't even have noticed them. Editorial is the party calling attention to them.

They've said the retcon is also to show the heroes as younger and elss experienced... but if they are keeping all of the back stories then how are they younger? All they have to do is ask the writers to write the heroes the way they want; every new writer on Batman puts his/her own stamp on the guy, how is this any different?

I understand what's also gained is a big spike in interest from shuffling up the titles and creative teams and putting out a ton of #1 issues, but this also could have been done without a "reboot"... in quotes because at this point it's anyone's guess what it means.

Yeah, I see what you're saying about calling attention to the inconsistencies.

It seems like the most confusing thing DC does is embrace continuity while simultaneously rejecting it. Pick a stance!

I prefer they just reject it because I hate boring stories written solely with the aim of justifying some tiny continuity inconsistency. Especially when they employ some vague cosmic time 'n space mumbo jumbo (i.e. deus ex machina).


They need to pick a stance and stick with it.