CBR: Tilting at Windmills - Jun 9, 2011

[bluetyson]

They've got comics on the shelves in Barnes & Noble now. These books will be available online. There's going to be a national ad campaign. I expect you'll be seeing more venues for these books that we haven't heard about yet.

Like comic shops, there will be fewer Barnes & Noble shops next year.

Nation ad campaign - but do they have an international internet ad campaign is what is also interesting.

[bluetyson]

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

Sometimes they are, but at $9.00 in Australia and $12 in New Zealand counting the sales won't take too long.....

[nilzero]

That Brian is correct. The argument is laid out and backed with facts from his long experience as a retailer. It should be equally as obvious that WB/DC employs at least a few competent marketers and accountants. They have concluded that this move is in THEIR best interest, rightly or wrongly concluded. That does not mean it has the best interest of the DM in mind as well. If they decide that digital and bookstores generate enough revenue, in a bean counter sense, to nourish the intellectual property, which is WB's first concern, the DM will be allowed the die on the vine

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I agree. The DM will eventually become a loss leader for Marvel and DC. Digital sales may help the DM in an indirect way. If digital is profitable enough, then keeping the print side as a loss leader can work. But at what point is the loss still useful?
Will the DM become an exclusive variant copy, limited edition, signed and autographed (and numbered) artificial scarcity business model?
It's the same thing for music with CD's. The DM and CD's will end once Digital becomes affordable and universal. This could take awhile. There are still enough people that sustain both formats.
The convenience of digital over owning and storing the physical stuff is a reality that can't be ignored and one of the main reasons why a lot of book stores have been closing down. If the big book stores are having problems staying in business then the DM is in serious trouble.
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[mistergoodman]

Releasing 52 number ones in one go is stupid.

DC should be doing this over 3 months, with 18 issues a month [still $50] or even 1 year, with each issue becoming the new feature of the week.

...

Detective and Action Comics needs to be on every newsagent stand in every country in the west. Kids everywhere should be growing up with this stuff.

Maybe they need to speak to the guy who does the distribution for Archie/ Betty and Veronica, that shit is everywhere.

Actually Archie comics aren't "everywhere". And they put out a total of 14 comics a month or so, half of which are $4 digests (a format Marvel and DC's comics don't necessarily lend themselves well to). And not a lot of convenience stores are looking to expand the number of magazines they carry these days- it's actually going in the other direction. And newstands themselves are dying.

Spreading out the first issues would make things easy for the direct market, but would make for a far more muddled marketing campaign. "We're rolling out all-new first issues right now" is a better message than "We're rolling out all new first issues eventually". It looks like they're trying to keep things as simple and appealing for new digital readers as possible, with new number ones and accessible jumping on points for everything accross the line.

[QCCBob]

I agree. The DM will eventually become a loss leader for Marvel and DC.

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

[JohnnyLiar]

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

This! For DC and Marvel it doesn't really matter how many books stay on the shelves, as long as they're out of their hands, they've made their money.

[nilzero]

AND THIS is what drives me crazy... THE DIRECT MARKET CAN NEVER BE A LOSS LEADER. It's impossible. The publisher knows exactly how many books are going to sell the day they set the press run, then, they decide to overprint or not. If they can't make money, they can cancel the book or resolicit at a higher price point. This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the civilian population, DC and Marvel physically cannot lose money on DM books unless they choose to overprint dramatically. Those book are sold to retailers and that's all that really matters bottom line. That's why they are so hesitant to get too crazy with downloads. There is no guarantee of sales.

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Yes, and that's right now. Digital is inevitable. Keeping the print market alive is possible but how long until print becomes a loss leader entry point?
If digital fails for comics then what? I think that will be the end of the majority of them if not all.
Would Marvel and DC eventually adapt to how Avatar releases comics?
Avatar will release 4 to 6 different covers for a single issue, has limited press runs on some of these covers (i.e. ltd 1500), sometimes autographed and bagged sets. This is the direction comics seem to be going.
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[mistergoodman]

Would Marvel and DC eventually adapt to how Avatar releases comics?
Avatar will release 4 to 6 different covers for a single issue, has limited press runs on some of these covers (i.e. ltd 1500), sometimes autographed and bagged sets. This is the direction comics seem to be going.

I don't think Marvel or DC would keep the publishing divisions open if they got that small. Not worth the hassle. In fact, I suspect one reason DC and Marvel are flooding the market with books is to keep revenues up for their corporate masters, to keep heads from rolling.

[fever00]

I'm a big Vertigo reader. I buy pretty much everything the imprint publishes. The only DCU stuff I've bought recently has been stuff written by Jeff Lemire. I'm kind of fascinated by the DCU reboot. There are at least four titles I'll be buying at least the first arc of.
I've also been illegally downloading a lot of the Flashpoint books. The only way they'd be able to get me to pay for those was if they charged like a buck an issue for digital issues. They could make a lot of money this way, if they loaded the books with ads..

[mistergoodman]

I've also been illegally downloading a lot of the Flashpoint books. The only way they'd be able to get me to pay for those was if they charged like a buck an issue for digital issues. They could make a lot of money this way, if they loaded the books with ads..

DC actually does do that now and then. They had a two day Blackest Night sale a few months ago where Blackest Night and every single tie-in issue were offered for 99 cents each digitally. They did the same thing with the New Krypton saga. ComiXology generally does at least two 99 cent sales a week, at least one of them Marvel (today it's 13 issues of X-Force and Cable from 2009). It's worth keeping an eye on via Twitter. DC has a sale about every two months.

[fever00]

Yeah, but by the time they get around to it I've either downloaded it illegally, or gotten it from the library.

[bluetyson]

DC actually does do that now and then. They had a two day Blackest Night sale a few months ago where Blackest Night and every single tie-in issue were offered for 99 cents each digitally. They did the same thing with the New Krypton saga. ComiXology generally does at least two 99 cent sales a week, at least one of them Marvel (today it's 13 issues of X-Force and Cable from 2009). It's worth keeping an eye on via Twitter. DC has a sale about every two months.

Which is really cool and a great idea - but part of the point of keeping up with periodicals, is the keeping up part.

So they could have sold 'subscribe to Blackest Night' in advance.

[nilzero]

I don't think Marvel or DC would keep the publishing divisions open if they got that small. Not worth the hassle. In fact, I suspect one reason DC and Marvel are flooding the market with books is to keep revenues up for their corporate masters, to keep heads from rolling.

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Someone suggested on one of these forums that it might be cheaper to renew the copyright of any given character by releasing a comic instead of a new tv show or movie. Any idea if that's true?
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[the Dagman]

Brian, I am thinking that CBR's poll on what books the site's readers are picking up is more useful to retailers than it is to DC. As the LCS caters primarily to the existing comic fan base, while DC is shooting for a break out in digital. Do you plan on using it at all to order the books in your store?

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Someone suggested on one of these forums that it might be cheaper to renew the copyright of any given character by releasing a comic instead of a new tv show or movie. Any idea if that's true?

I believe you are referring to renewing a trademark, not copyright. Copyright law doesn't work that way.

[nilzero]

Brian, I am thinking that CBR's poll on what books the site's readers are picking up is more useful to retailers than it is to DC. As the LCS caters primarily to the existing comic fan base, while DC is shooting for a break out in digital. Do you plan on using it at all to order the books in your store?



I believe you are referring to renewing a trademark, not copyright. Copyright law doesn't work that way.

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Yeah, my mistake. So... is it cheaper to renew a trademark by printing up some comics instead of making a movie or tv show?
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