The Stephanie Brown 'Batgirl' Appreciation Thread

[shark]

I didn't say she got as much advertisement as Babs, but she did get advertisement. They ran the whole who is gonna be the new Batgirl thing. Her book was advertised. Though i guess given that the popular thing to do is to martyrize her around here, i can see that some of u are going to choose to ignore it and just continue to go on with how DC just didn't do enough. Whatever.

DC didn't do enough, this is a fact. Nobody who wasn't already aware of the bat books knew about the new Batgirl campaign, she got one figurine that is so hard to get most people don't even know it exists, she only appeared in a couple of other books (and the only "big" ones were Red Robin and World's Finest) and her book was released months after the two big events (Battle for the Cowl and Blackest Night). While I've seen giant posters in Comic Con with Adam Hughes's Batgirl 1 cover, I never saw anything like that for Steph.

Compare to Babs, who in less than a year appeared in almost all bat books (and books that were not bat related), got Adam Hughes on the covers (I don't care what Gail Simone says, as good as Nyugen and Noto are, they are nowhere near as recognizable as Hughes) and has 3 figurines already. And that's not even counting the relaunch.

[Godlike13]

DC didn't do enough, this is a fact. Nobody who wasn't already aware of the bat books knew about the new Batgirl campaign, she got one figurine that is so hard to get most people don't even know it exists, she only appeared in a couple of other books (and the only "big" ones were Red Robin and World's Finest) and her book was released months after the two big events (Battle for the Cowl and Blackest Night). While I've seen giant posters in Comic Con with Adam Hughes's Batgirl 1 cover, I never saw anything like that for Steph.

Compare to Babs, who in less than a year appeared in almost all bat books (and books that were not bat related), got Adam Hughes on the covers (I don't care what Gail Simone says, as good as Nyugen and Noto are, they are nowhere near as recognizable as Hughes) and has 3 figurines already. And that's not even counting the relaunch.

-How many figurines do u expect to her have she was the new Batgirl for only like two years. U think there was a big market for Stephanie Brown Batgirl figurines or something?
-Her book was released i believe like 2 months after Batman and Robin, and 1 month after BN. Still under the Batman: Reborn line. Which where all released after Battle for the Cowl.
-Not sure Adam Hughes's was available to do her covers. And honestly Nyugen and Noto are still pretty recognizable in ther own right.
-Her ads where around.

[shark]

-How many figurines do u expect to her have she was the new Batgirl for only like two years. U think there was a big market for Stephanie Brown Batgirl figurines or something?
-Her book was released i believe like 2 months after Batman and Robin, and 1 month after BN. Still under the Batman: Reborn line. Which where all released after Battle for the Cowl.
-Not sure Adam Hughes's was available to do her covers. And honestly Nyugen and Noto are still pretty recognizable in ther own right.
-Her ads where around.

- How many figurines did Babs get in the last 10 months? How many did Cass get in 10 years?
- Point is she was not included in either event, while Damian was.
- That's a poor excuse. And as I said, Noto and Nyugen are good, but not as recognizable as Hughes.
- Did she get a giant poster in any of the cons?

I'm not saying they wanted the book to fail, that would be stupid. But she didn't get "plenty" of advertising either.

[MajorHoy]

- How many figurines did Babs get in the last 10 months? How many did Cass get in 10 years?
- Point is she was not included in either event, while Damian was.
- That's a poor excuse. And as I said, Noto and Nyugen are good, but not as recognizable as Hughes.
- Did she get a giant poster in any of the cons?

I'm not saying they wanted the book to fail, that would be stupid. But she didn't get "plenty" of advertising either.

I'm sorry, arguing about how many "figurines" somebody did or didn't get is sooooooooo über-geeky, especially to someone like me who buys comic books but doesn't really collect all the figurines, action figures, and other collectible-detritus except for the occassional toy from Walmart or Toys 'R Us.

[Rainspeckle]

Well... I just joined this forum, and I figure this thread is as good as any to make my first post. (Because Steph is awesome. \o/)

I'll try to be at least the slightest bit relevant to what's being spoken of at the moment...

Around the time that Steph's series was released, I was still a fairly casual comics reader. I more just followed my brother into stores, kind of milled about and looked at the figurines, and ended up reading whatever he bought once we went home. I didn't have all that much money of my own at the time, so I didn't really feel the need to browse around and look for something to buy for myself specifically, so my knowledge of what was going on in universe was pretty much limited to what was in the issues I flipped through and what little advertisement there was around. I liked comics well enough, but I didn't really have a reason to look at things any closer.

I was definitely aware of what was doing on with Dick and Damian, and with Tim, to an extent, though I wasn't reading Red Robin at the time. But there wasn't really anything big that made it obvious that, hey, look - a new Batgirl, you should take a look at her book! >>

At the time, as someone who had grown up watching B:TAS, a lot of the conceptions I had about the Bat-side of the DCU were based on that show. So when, one day, months later, I actually bothered to look down the rack of new issues, I was a bit confused when I saw the Batgirl book. My thought process was definitely somewhere along the lines of:

"Wait, blonde? But Babs has red hair. And... wait, what? I thought she was Oracle now...? So who's this?"

So there was just a little confusion, yes. (But when DC's pushed one single version of the character in all of their other media for the longest time, what else is to be expected?) But there was more curiosity than anything else. I actually really wanted to pick up the book, because just the idea that there was actually another Batgirl who took on the mantle - that Batgirl had grown into a legacy - was an amazing thought.

Steph's Batgirl #4 was the first issue of a comic I ever bought for myself. And I loved it.

I liked the tone of the book, and its humor. It wasn't what I was expecting from a Bat-book. Steph, as a character, was easy to relate to. And Babs, too, was amazing, as always. As a girl who was facing lots of challenges in real life - in moving away from home for the first time to attend university, while dealing with some newly surfaced aspects of a chronic illness I have, etc. - the book's hopeful, optimistic, and positive perspective meant a lot to me. Going to pick up Steph's book was a bright point I had to look forward to every month, and I really appreciated that. (And it's something I'm sorely missing now. D:)

Now that I had a reason to be more active in comic reading, I ended up picking up a few other titles almost immediately, and occasionally picked up a few others on and off. I did research and tried to learn as much as I could about at least the Bats. As a result, I started collecting issues of Cassandra's run, and grew to love her as a character just as much as I loved Steph and Babs. So, ultimately, Steph's series was my gateway into the comics world. My brother actually has a good laugh about it now and then; I guess he's amused at how his little sister has somehow become even more into his hobby than he is.

But, yes. Everything was wonderful.

And then the reboot happened. And I was upset, definitely, but not to the point that I was really outright angry. In fact, I was probably more leaning toward thinking of it as a good idea on the whole, to clean things up and make them more relevant and accessible to new and/or potential readers. The only thing I was really stung about was what was going on in my favorite little corner of the universe with the Batgirls.

I went into the reboot with high hopes that I'd find a new set of books to fall in love with, but a year in... I find I've lost most, if not all of the interest Steph's series had grown in me. The last Batgirl run really was a great book to get people into comics; I'm always going to stand by that. I understand that business decisions are business decisions, and that they're (more than likely) not personal, but... that doesn't change the fact that much of what I loved in the DCU is either gone or changed beyond recognition, and apparently isn't welcome back anytime soon. I've been symbolically slapped in the face enough times by DC for now. I'll be watching from a distance from now on - a position I was very much used to up until a couple of years ago - until I'm given another reason to jump back in.

Buuuut... more relevant to the thread of what's going on in conversation right now:

- I don't know about how much demand there was or anything, or if there really needed to be more than one figure, but I do think that having Steph's one figure be at least a little more prevalent would have been significant. There's always the chance that if a figure's on the shelf somewhere - even in a shop that doesn't sell comics - someone could take interest and end up buying the book as a result. They would have sold, at the very least, I'm sure - I mean look at the demand for them now - and any little extra bit of publicity couldn't have hurt.
- As someone who was on the cusp of being interested in comics and needing a little push, I had no idea who any of these artists were, therefore it had absolutely no influence over my decisions. A specific cover artist might have influence over people who are already reading comics, and thus are probably already aware of what's going on, but it does nothing for people who aren't already in that group and don't quite know what's going on (even if it's something they really would like to know about).
- Definitely never saw any Steph ads anywhere, so if they were there, they weren't abundant or obvious enough to be of any significance, as far as I know.

I'm not going to try to say that Steph ever would have necessarily sold as well as Babsgirl does, but I do think she could have done better if the book (and universe, even) was given just a little more spotlight. I actually successfully introduced my roommates and even a couple of other friends to comics just by giving letting them borrow my Stephgirl trades, and they all made it clear that if they'd been aware that this book was happening or just knew more about it to begin with, they would have bought it every month happily. There was definitely wasted potential there, but I guess that's pretty much moot now.

I still think that Steph should have a place in the DCU, though. She's earned at least that much. DC's going to be getting a purple waffle-shaped love letter from me soon. <3

(Beats sending the ten page accumulation of grievances I've been saving, at least. >>)

[Godlike13]

- How many figurines did Babs get in the last 10 months? How many did Cass get in 10 years?
- Point is she was not included in either event, while Damian was.
- That's a poor excuse. And as I said, Noto and Nyugen are good, but not as recognizable as Hughes.
- Did she get a giant poster in any of the cons?

I'm not saying they wanted the book to fail, that would be stupid. But she didn't get "plenty" of advertising either.

- I don't know, i don't collect figurines. Whats do figurines even matter anyway. Do u think more figurines were gonna lead into comic sales or something? Because quite frankly if a lot people weren't buying her comic, then i doubt they were in much of a rush to make a bunch of figurines after her.
- Why would she be in either event? She wasn't even Batgirl yet. Batman: Reborn was about a new Batman and Robin (Damian), and Darkest Night was a GL event. Batman got a tie in mini, but thats Batman. Let get real here, neither event had anything to do with her. But ya, shame on DC for not plunging in Steph. Dick should have totally stopped what he was doing and been like, "Ok, wait guys. Now i know me taking on the burden of Batman is a big deal and all, but OMG Stephanie Brown just became the new Batgirl!". Oh and she should have just totally been the White Lantern in BN. They really dropped the ball there.
- Poor excuse? Oh, please. Steph got Noto and Nyugen covers, oh noooooooooo!
- I don't know, don't go to many Cons. But i remember seeing the Noto covers pretty often. The one where she was in Cass' costume with mouth uncovered, and the one where she's putting on the boots.

She got "plenty" of advertising. I was there, i remember the ads and the who is gonna be the new Batgirl campaign they had running pretty clearly, but apparently i guess anything short of making her the center of the DC universe is just not enough.

[Aprillis]

Well... I just joined this forum, and I figure this thread is as good as any to make my first post. (Because Steph is awesome. \o/)

I'll try to be at least the slightest bit relevant to what's being spoken of at the moment...

Around the time that Steph's series was released, I was still a fairly casual comics reader. I more just followed my brother into stores, kind of milled about and looked at the figurines, and ended up reading whatever he bought once we went home. I didn't have all that much money of my own at the time, so I didn't really feel the need to browse around and look for something to buy for myself specifically, so my knowledge of what was going on in universe was pretty much limited to what was in the issues I flipped through and what little advertisement there was around. I liked comics well enough, but I didn't really have a reason to look at things any closer.

I was definitely aware of what was doing on with Dick and Damian, and with Tim, to an extent, though I wasn't reading Red Robin at the time. But there wasn't really anything big that made it obvious that, hey, look - a new Batgirl, you should take a look at her book! >>

At the time, as someone who had grown up watching B:TAS, a lot of the conceptions I had about the Bat-side of the DCU were based on that show. So when, one day, months later, I actually bothered to look down the rack of new issues, I was a bit confused when I saw the Batgirl book. My thought process was definitely somewhere along the lines of:

"Wait, blonde? But Babs has red hair. And... wait, what? I thought she was Oracle now...? So who's this?"

So there was just a little confusion, yes. (But when DC's pushed one single version of the character in all of their other media for the longest time, what else is to be expected?) But there was more curiosity than anything else. I actually really wanted to pick up the book, because just the idea that there was actually another Batgirl who took on the mantle - that Batgirl had grown into a legacy - was an amazing thought.

Steph's Batgirl #4 was the first issue of a comic I ever bought for myself. And I loved it.

I liked the tone of the book, and its humor. It wasn't what I was expecting from a Bat-book. Steph, as a character, was easy to relate to. And Babs, too, was amazing, as always. As a girl who was facing lots of challenges in real life - in moving away from home for the first time to attend university, while dealing with some newly surfaced aspects of a chronic illness I have, etc. - the book's hopeful, optimistic, and positive perspective meant a lot to me. Going to pick up Steph's book was a bright point I had to look forward to every month, and I really appreciated that. (And it's something I'm sorely missing now. D:)

Now that I had a reason to be more active in comic reading, I ended up picking up a few other titles almost immediately, and occasionally picked up a few others on and off. I did research and tried to learn as much as I could about at least the Bats. As a result, I started collecting issues of Cassandra's run, and grew to love her as a character just as much as I loved Steph and Babs. So, ultimately, Steph's series was my gateway into the comics world. My brother actually has a good laugh about it now and then; I guess he's amused at how his little sister has somehow become even more into his hobby than he is.

But, yes. Everything was wonderful.

And then the reboot happened. And I was upset, definitely, but not to the point that I was really outright angry. In fact, I was probably more leaning toward thinking of it as a good idea on the whole, to clean things up and make them more relevant and accessible to new and/or potential readers. The only thing I was really stung about was what was going on in my favorite little corner of the universe with the Batgirls.

I went into the reboot with high hopes that I'd find a new set of books to fall in love with, but a year in... I find I've lost most, if not all of the interest Steph's series had grown in me. The last Batgirl run really was a great book to get people into comics; I'm always going to stand by that. I understand that business decisions are business decisions, and that they're (more than likely) not personal, but... that doesn't change the fact that much of what I loved in the DCU is either gone or changed beyond recognition, and apparently isn't welcome back anytime soon. I've been symbolically slapped in the face enough times by DC for now. I'll be watching from a distance from now on - a position I was very much used to up until a couple of years ago - until I'm given another reason to jump back in.

Buuuut... more relevant to the thread of what's going on in conversation right now:

- I don't know about how much demand there was or anything, or if there really needed to be more than one figure, but I do think that having Steph's one figure be at least a little more prevalent would have been significant. There's always the chance that if a figure's on the shelf somewhere - even in a shop that doesn't sell comics - someone could take interest and end up buying the book as a result. They would have sold, at the very least, I'm sure - I mean look at the demand for them now - and any little extra bit of publicity couldn't have hurt.
- As someone who was on the cusp of being interested in comics and needing a little push, I had no idea who any of these artists were, therefore it had absolutely no influence over my decisions. A specific cover artist might have influence over people who are already reading comics, and thus are probably already aware of what's going on, but it does nothing for people who aren't already in that group and don't quite know what's going on (even if it's something they really would like to know about).
- Definitely never saw any Steph ads anywhere, so if they were there, they weren't abundant or obvious enough to be of any significance, as far as I know.

I'm not going to try to say that Steph ever would have necessarily sold as well as Babsgirl does, but I do think she could have done better if the book (and universe, even) was given just a little more spotlight. I actually successfully introduced my roommates and even a couple of other friends to comics just by giving letting them borrow my Stephgirl trades, and they all made it clear that if they'd been aware that this book was happening or just knew more about it to begin with, they would have bought it every month happily. There was definitely wasted potential there, but I guess that's pretty much moot now.

I still think that Steph should have a place in the DCU, though. She's earned at least that much. DC's going to be getting a purple waffle-shaped love letter from me soon. <3

(Beats sending the ten page accumulation of grievances I've been saving, at least. >>)

I love this post.

[OptimaX]

I stole this image from the Tim Drake Has Never Been Robin discussion thread and thought it was relevant enough to place it here as well.

[ffritts]

Love that page, thats just as good as Inc 3's 1st page

[OptimaX]

I love that panel where he says "I was robin for 20 years" looking 20 years of age himself... Brilliant page.

[MajorHoy]

I stole this image from the Tim Drake Has Never Been Robin discussion thread and thought it was relevant enough to place it here as well.

Well, we also have "rooms" labeled Wally West and Ted Kord . . . were any of the other names readable to anybody?

(And you just know one of them has to Donna Troy's "room".)

[X-23_1977]

Well, we also have "rooms" labeled Wally West and Ted Kord . . . were any of the other names readable to anybody?

(And you just know one of them has to Donna Troy's "room".)

And Cassandra Cain. :(

[Mr. Holmes]

People need to calm down, they're not taking away his time as Robin. Lobdell just suggested that perhaps he always was Red Robin during the Robin era, but even that isn't official.

[MajorHoy]

People need to calm down, they're not taking away his time as Robin. Lobdell just suggested that perhaps he always was Red Robin during the Robin era, but even that isn't official.

I guess we'll just have to see how they mess up Tim's past in Teen Titans 0.

[X-23_1977]

I guess we'll just have to see how they mess up Tim's past in Teen Titans 0.

Wouldn't there also be a Red Robin #0 as well, so two chances to mess it up even more.