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  1. #3376
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebow View Post
    A lot of things that happened in the previous continuity such as "Wargames" might not have happened in this one or the time frames would be compressed. As an alternative, what if Stephanie had been secretly training as Robin at the same time that Barbara Gordon was shot and it was her idea that Stephanie replace her as Batgirl, possibly initially with a red wig, for reasons including preserving her identity. This would also explain those posts that said Barbara was seen as Batgirl after she was shot. When Barbara was ready to return Batman sent Stephanie to infiltrate the English assassin school which happened post re-boot and when the mission was complete, she did not return to Gotham for various reasons including respect for her predecessor
    Honestly, I don't think there's any chance whatsoever of Steph keeping her batgirl history. Maybe keep it as Spoiler, but DC is so weird about that particular mantle (for whatever reason) that I'd rather her just be spoiler.

    That and given the time period, I think we would only get one replacement batgirl (if any). And if that's the case I'd rather it be Cass then Steph.

  2. #3377
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    Honestly, I don't think there's any chance whatsoever of Steph keeping her batgirl history. Maybe keep it as Spoiler, but DC is so weird about that particular mantle (for whatever reason) that I'd rather her just be spoiler.

    That and given the time period, I think we would only get one replacement batgirl (if any). And if that's the case I'd rather it be Cass then Steph.
    But if Shiva is not now old enough to have a daughter old enough to be Batgirl that raises it's own problems.

  3. #3378
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    If there was another Batgirl in between and Batman had any respect for her we would not have had that "You were always meant to be Batgirl" line.

    And just by its name alone Batgirl is something to be grown out of. Even BQM had it that Steph took another name when she became a full adult. Spoiler, oddly enough, does not have that problem.

  4. #3379
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    If there was another Batgirl in between and Batman had any respect for her we would not have had that "You were always meant to be Batgirl" line.

    And just by its name alone Batgirl is something to be grown out of. Even BQM had it that Steph took another name when she became a full adult. Spoiler, oddly enough, does not have that problem.
    It depends on the emphasis it could be respect for Barbara rather that disrespect for anyone else. Saying that she was meant to be Batgirl might have been a rare show of emotion on his part, not that anyone else did not deserve it. I also didn't say that Stephanie should return to being Batgirl, but that she could have been, even in this continuity. In fact saying "You were always meant to be Batgirl" might be taken to imply that there were others or at least one other.
    Last edited by Bluebow; 12-27-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  5. #3380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebow View Post
    But if Shiva is not now old enough to have a daughter old enough to be Batgirl that raises it's own problems.
    Meh, details. Honestly, what is Shiva's origin at this point? If I were at DC I would make them sisters, both raised by David Cain to be the ultimate assassin. I'd make it so that Shiva didn't take as well to the body reading, and was deemed a "failure" by Cain, but became the world's deadliest assassin / martial artist anyway just to prove Cain wrong.

    Of course, since Cass was the "success" she wouldn't be truly fulfilled until she fought and beat Cass in a fight to the death.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    If there was another Batgirl in between and Batman had any respect for her we would not have had that "You were always meant to be Batgirl" line.
    Eh, I think since it's Cass its okay. She really only became batgirl because she was a girl who was a bat and the mantle was open. She later grew to respect it through her dealings with Babs, but even then it was still more about being a "bat" than a "batgirl"

    And just by its name alone Batgirl is something to be grown out of. Even BQM had it that Steph took another name when she became a full adult. Spoiler, oddly enough, does not have that problem.
    Another reason why I prefer Spoiler.

  6. #3381
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    Of Steph was Batgirl and was exactly as skilled as she was in the BQM series, then she might as well be Cass compared to Babs right now. I realize there is a preceden for a better fighter giving up the role of Batgirl to a lesser fighter and leaving Gotham, but then there was an actual purpose to the switch beyond giving the new Batgirl a chance, it was part of Cass' growing up, and Cass didn't have a mother waiting for her in Gotham.

    Maybe it could work with Cass because of her devotion to Batman, but not with Steph. If I thought it possible for Steph to just leave Gotham for a really long time without 'dying' I'd have had her go with Bruce on the year-long training journey above.

  7. #3382
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Of Steph was Batgirl and was exactly as skilled as she was in the BQM series, then she might as well be Cass compared to Babs right now. I realize there is a preceden for a better fighter giving up the role of Batgirl to a lesser fighter and leaving Gotham, but then there was an actual purpose to the switch beyond giving the new Batgirl a chance, it was part of Cass' growing up, and Cass didn't have a mother waiting for her in Gotham.

    Maybe it could work with Cass because of her devotion to Batman, but not with Steph. If I thought it possible for Steph to just leave Gotham for a really long time without 'dying' I'd have had her go with Bruce on the year-long training journey above.
    Stephanie must have told her mother something when she left for England. She must think she is still studying in England, perhaps on a Wayne Foundation Scholarship which would be a financial consideration on a nurse's salary.

  8. #3383
    Senior Member Bluebow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Of Steph was Batgirl and was exactly as skilled as she was in the BQM series, then she might as well be Cass compared to Babs right now. I realize there is a preceden for a better fighter giving up the role of Batgirl to a lesser fighter and leaving Gotham, but then there was an actual purpose to the switch beyond giving the new Batgirl a chance, it was part of Cass' growing up, and Cass didn't have a mother waiting for her in Gotham.

    Maybe it could work with Cass because of her devotion to Batman, but not with Steph. If I thought it possible for Steph to just leave Gotham for a really long time without 'dying' I'd have had her go with Bruce on the year-long training journey above.
    I would say there was a purpose here as well. As both Cass and Batman said at various points "Stephanie needed this" and at that point Barbara needed it. As well as the obvious respect, I think Stephanie would have the compassion and the insight to realise that.

  9. #3384
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    I disagree. For one, as I've already pointed out, there was a purpose to Stephanie becoming Batgirl beyond 'giving her a chance' or 'she needs this.' There was the whole hope thing, and from Bruce's point of view it played into his idea that Steph would help Tim carry on protecting Gotham without him. With Babs the only reason is 'she needs this,' which is itself stupid because if there was ever someone who should not be doing the vigilante thing, it's the person who could end up back in a wheelchair just from playing tennis too hard.

    There are so many reasons Steph should not be staying out of the country. She's already done that when she was 'dead,' and repeating that so soon is ridiculous. She has a fallback identity that she would have no trouble going back to in Gotham. Her appeal as a character is too tied to Gotham for her to be away for long stretches. Becoming closer to her mother was a big thing for her during her time as Batgirl, and staying away for so long is not the way to go about that. And byhaving her stay away you undo the last 2 issues of her Batgirl series, and there is no point in keeping her time as Batgirl if you get rid of that story.

    And the point is moot, since in Leviathan strikes they went out of their way to be explicit that the story is only cannon before Flashpoint and is not part of the new continuity at all.

  10. #3385
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    And the point is moot, since in Leviathan strikes they went out of their way to be explicit that the story is only cannon before Flashpoint and is not part of the new continuity at all.
    Precisely this. If editorial ever decides to allow the character to return then I'm sure the writer will find some device for bringing her back , but it doesn't appear that will be while current powers that be remain in place. I think Simone has been trying to leave the door open a tad that there might have been a Batgirl legacy, but I suspect that door will have been closed by the time editorial ever green lights anything involving Steph. Heart, hope and humor are not traits DC is currently big on their characters or comics projecting.

  11. #3386
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    I actually feel that it is much more important to keep as much of her history as Spoiler intact as opposed to her time as Batgirl. The development she experienced as Batgirl can be transferred or redone with her still being Spoiler, but her history under Dixon is too much a part of who she is to be swept away without having problems like what happened to Tim in the Nu52.
    Last edited by sunofdarkchild; 12-29-2012 at 09:00 AM.

  12. #3387
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    I hear what you are saying and don't entirely disagree although I loved where the Batgirl series and Leviathan Strikes took the character. But based on what I've seen so far of the new universe it appears that if Steph Brown appears they will be starting over unfortunately. I guess we could hold out hope that some of the Spoiler stuff might get used as a basis for the new version.

  13. #3388
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    If there was one story that absolutely had to be kept above all others it would be Detective Comics 647-649. That her origin involved leaving clues to stop her father is the one thing that cannot be changed. They can have it that she never had a relationship with Tim, never was pregnant, never became Robin or Batgirl, never had a problem with her mother, never made friends with Cass or Supergirl, but if she never 'spoiled' her father's plans then she is no longer Stephanie Brown.

    Knowing DC they'll get rid of all of her stories and only leave War Games.

    On a better note, has anyone been checking out the thread wondering about a Smallville style Batman tv show? Myself and a few other people concluded that the best way to do that would be to adapt the Dixon Robin series. A huge number of episodes could be lifted from the comics to great effect.

    Season 1. They're in 9th grade. Batman is not around (say he's out looking for Tim's father like he was in the comics at the time). Tim is with Ariana, but meets Spoiler in her debut story in the first couple of episodes. They're relationship is basically the same throughout the first season as it was through the first 50 issues of Robin. Batman comes back in the middle of the season with his father, leading to the problems of keeping his identity secret. Batman still isn't around that much. The earthquake happens in the season finale.

    Season 2. Aftermath of the earthquake. Tim and Steph get together. The pregnancy storyarc.

    Season 3. Tim at Brentwood. Steph finds out his identity. Tim's father killed halfway at the end of the season.

    Season 4. Their senior year. Batman has Steph test Tim because he's getting older and planning to retire and leave the protection of Gotham to Tim. The series ends with them engaged and Tim taking Brice's place, though not the mantle of Batman. Perhaps with the stories taken from the Lewis run.

    I think that has the makings of an awesome show, and the Robin brand is strong enough that imagine it would be successful.

  14. #3389
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    I agree that Steph's basic origin is the one thing that really couldn't change for her to make sense as a character and yet DC editorial seems about as clueless sometimes as you suggest.

    I haven't been looking at the Smallville style Batman show thread but I like this idea of a Robin series about Tim. I think it really could work. Have we started casting yet? ;)

  15. #3390
    Don't do the Limbo sunofdarkchild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickfighter View Post
    I agree that Steph's basic origin is the one thing that really couldn't change for her to make sense as a character and yet DC editorial seems about as clueless sometimes as you suggest.

    I haven't been looking at the Smallville style Batman show thread but I like this idea of a Robin series about Tim. I think it really could work. Have we started casting yet? ;)
    Casting? No one seriously thinks it will happen. The op asked what people thought of the idea of a Smallville-style show, and some of us said that the best way to do that would be to make it about Tim instead of Bruce or Dick. You don't have to worry about having the big bad guys before he becomes Batman, about Dick being homeschooled, or about having bad guys that would break the budget. You have built in cast members at school, several characters who could fill the Lex Luthor role, ect.

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