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  1. #46
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I don't think evil triumphs more often than not in the 'real' world. But even if I did buy into that philosophy, I tend to think that fiction is about the world we can create, not necessarily the one we've got. So I don't see the need to overwhelm readers with death and destruction at every corner.

    I think the Marvel Universe is a place where bad things often happen to good people, but heroism tends to prevail. You look at say, Flash Thompson or Matt Murdock, and they've lived hellish lives. But I also feel pretty inspired by their persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. When you're Flash Thompson, getting out of bad and taking another shot at it is a triumph over evil!
    I'm cool with a nice balance. There's no reason that the heroes should get it so good when their supporting casts get routinely decimated to prop the main guy or gal up. No one feels bad for Gwen, but oh no please don't hurt Spider-Man. Heck with that noise.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
    -Theophilus

  2. #47
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I don't think evil triumphs more often than not in the 'real' world. But even if I did buy into that philosophy, I tend to think that fiction is about the world we can create, not necessarily the one we've got. So I don't see the need to overwhelm readers with death and destruction at every corner.

    I think the Marvel Universe is a place where bad things often happen to good people, but heroism tends to prevail. You look at say, Flash Thompson or Matt Murdock, and they've lived hellish lives. But I also feel pretty inspired by their persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. When you're Flash Thompson, getting out of bad and taking another shot at it is a triumph over evil!
    But sometimes good people did horribly and unnecessarily in ways that are devoid of meaning. If writers never show that within the Marvel Universe, they're creating a misleading picture of the world.
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  3. #48
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meehaul View Post
    Although I guess from matties viewpoint evil did pretty well.
    That would be true of any story in which a good person was murdered.
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  4. #49
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    But sometimes good people did horribly and unnecessarily in ways that are devoid of meaning. If writers never show that within the Marvel Universe, they're creating a misleading picture of the world.
    Yeah, but if you look at my post, I never argued against that point. And personally, I'm not that concerned about Mattie's death one way or the other. I just think that on the whole, good prevails in the Marvel Universe. It's not like the Kraven's pulled a real victory out of Mattie's death, after all. Kraven doesn't even want to be alive!
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  5. #50
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    I'm cool with a nice balance. There's no reason that the heroes should get it so good when their supporting casts get routinely decimated to prop the main guy or gal up. No one feels bad for Gwen, but oh no please don't hurt Spider-Man. Heck with that noise.
    In what world td the Marvel Universe hereos 'get it so good'? They're not typically going to die meaningless deaths when they support their own book. But you can't really say Matt Murdock or Steve Rogers or Peter Parker or pretty much anyone you can point at have gotten off light.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I don't think evil triumphs more often than not in the 'real' world. But even if I did buy into that philosophy, I tend to think that fiction is about the world we can create, not necessarily the one we've got. So I don't see the need to overwhelm readers with death and destruction at every corner.

    I think the Marvel Universe is a place where bad things often happen to good people, but heroism tends to prevail. You look at say, Flash Thompson or Matt Murdock, and they've lived hellish lives. But I also feel pretty inspired by their persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. When you're Flash Thompson, getting out of bad and taking another shot at it is a triumph over evil!
    Really? "Hellish" lives? Flash Thompson has lived a great life. He was a high school bmoc, star qb. He was a military vet and got nominated for the medal of honor. He's now a g-man version of his favorite hero and is an Avenger working alongside Captain America, plus he's flirting with an Asgardian Goddess. Oh and he saved the world from Hell on Earth (literally)

    On the other hand, Matt Murdock is a successful lawyer and superhero who has saved countless lives and dated and slept with many beautiful women. And he's a celebrity and the talk of gossip columns.

  7. #52
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    In what world td the Marvel Universe hereos 'get it so good'? They're not typically going to die meaningless deaths when they support their own book. But you can't really say Matt Murdock or Steve Rogers or Peter Parker or pretty much anyone you can point at have gotten off light.
    They're still alive and generally happy.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
    -Theophilus

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    They're still alive and generally happy.
    Agreed. And Peter Parker can't shut up about how great his job is.

  9. #54
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One More Day View Post
    Really? "Hellish" lives? Flash Thompson has lived a great life. He was a high school bmoc, star qb. He was a military vet and got nominated for the medal of honor. He's now a g-man version of his favorite hero and is an Avenger working alongside Captain America, plus he's flirting with an Asgardian Goddess. Oh and he saved the world from Hell on Earth (literally)

    On the other hand, Matt Murdock is a successful lawyer and superhero who has saved countless lives and dated and slept with many beautiful women. And he's a celebrity and the talk of gossip columns.
    On the flip side, Flash spent years of his life as a hasbeen whose glory days were in high school and college football. He became an alcoholic, and lost his legs.

    Following the suicide of a girlfriend, Matt Murdoch spent a few years as a legal pariah, when he was framed and his reputation was destroyed. The love of his life was murdered in front of him. He had a nervous breakdown when his secret identity was exposed to the world. And an enemy of his poisoned his wife, resulting in irrevocable brain damage.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

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  10. #55
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    On the flip side, Flash spent years of his life as a hasbeen whose glory days were in high school and college football. He became an alcoholic, and lost his legs.

    Following the suicide of a girlfriend, Matt Murdoch spent a few years as a legal pariah, when he was framed and his reputation was destroyed. The love of his life was murdered in front of him. He had a nervous breakdown when his secret identity was exposed to the world. And an enemy of his poisoned his wife, resulting in irrevocable brain damage.
    Gonna say their loved ones still got it worse.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
    -Theophilus

  11. #56
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    On the flip side, Flash spent years of his life as a hasbeen whose glory days were in high school and college football. He became an alcoholic, and lost his legs.

    Following the suicide of a girlfriend, Matt Murdoch spent a few years as a legal pariah, when he was framed and his reputation was destroyed. The love of his life was murdered in front of him. He had a nervous breakdown when his secret identity was exposed to the world. And an enemy of his poisoned his wife, resulting in irrevocable brain damage.
    Yeah...and now Flash has bonded with a symbiote and is hiding that from the Secret Avengers. And Matt Murdock is probably on deck for another round of hell, as things are heating up again with "The Omega Effect" and who knows what the fallout will be.

    I hardly look at Flash and Matt and go, "Living the dream..."

    But it's all built on the Stan Lee foundation that being a hero comes at a price.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  12. #57
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    Gonna say their loved ones still got it worse.
    Depends on your perspective. Their loved ones are at peace, while they're still battling their demons.

    But really, I'm not sure what you want here 'hubbs. Are you saying you want Peter Parker to be thrown from a bridge and have his neck snapped by webbing? You want Matt Murdock to get AIDs and be slaughtered by Bullseye? This just isn't going to happen because they're the ones carrying their books.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  13. #58
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Depends on your perspective. Their loved ones are at peace, while they're still battling their demons.
    I don't think being murdered by a guy in a garish costume is exactly being at peace. But that's just me.

    But really, I'm not sure what you want here 'hubbs. Are you saying you want Peter Parker to be thrown from a bridge and have his neck snapped by webbing? You want Matt Murdock to get AIDs and be slaughtered by Bullseye? This just isn't going to happen because they're the ones carrying their books.
    I know it won't happen. I don't want a horrible ending every time. Despite what folks think, I can fully appreciate a happy ending. I loved Old Yeller.

    I just don't like when that becomes the expectation because we think they've earned it.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
    -Theophilus

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadXMan View Post
    Evil will always win because good is dumb.

    Says the one wearing the Dark Helmet.

    Space Balls: The Movie.

  15. #60
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
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    I see the answer is no.
    Currently reading She-Hulk, Deadpool, Swamp Thing, Ms. Marvel

    Probation: Ghost Rider, Loki: LoA, Secret Avengers

    Looking forward to All-New Ultimates, Flash Gordon and Doctor Mirage.

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