Did Evil Win with Mattie Franklin's Death?

[Chris N]

No.

Byrne's Spider-Woman series was so terrible* that the cause of good was served with her death.


*except for that issue with the werewolf nun

[worstblogever]

On the upside, she's no longer going to fall prey to hard drugs, and then being harvested for Mutant Growth Hormone.

[mugiwara]

D

Way I see it, Marvel, Spider-Man team just wanted to kill someone(s) to make the story, a story, like they did on Oskana, Billy Connors, Madame Web, Hobgoblin(?), and Marla Madison-Jameson.

But they didn't really made a story of her death. Not like Dan Slott did with Marla. Her death brought back Kraven, but had zero consequences on the good guys.

She was Jonah's niece. She was killed by Spidey's foes. Because she was a Spider Woman. Because she wanted to be a super hero like Spider Man.

It should have radically changed the dynamic between Jonah and Spidey. He should have spent the rest of his life blaming him for her death, and this time, Peter couldn't have laughed it off, because he would have felt responsible (not that he was really responsible, but both Jonah and Peter would have felt that way for different reasons).

I understand that the Spider Man writers time didn't want to go that way with Jonah and Spidey, but then they shouldn't have killed Mattie.

[CyberHubbs]

On the upside, she's no longer going to fall prey to hard drugs, and then being harvested for Mutant Growth Hormone.

Maybe there's drugs in Spider-Heaven.

[mugiwara]

On the upside, she's no longer going to fall prey to hard drugs, and then being harvested for Mutant Growth Hormone.

What made me a fan of the character is how she was able to get over that in Loners.
I remember that while reading the previews and the first pages of Loners #1, in which she was crying and telling how her life was ruined, I was thinking that she would be Spider Victim Girl for ever and that it was a sad developpment for her. But then she revealed that all the crying was an act and that she was still a super heroin.
She was a real bitch during the whole Loners mini, but she was also a strong character who didn't deserve to end like this and be forgotten as soon as the arc was over.

[stillanerd]

What gets me about Mattie Franklin's death is that Marvel had a perfect opportunity to explore the aftermath of it, and they completely ignored it. Remember, Jonah and Marla Jameson were Mattie's foster parents, who regarded her as their own daughter. Both of them would be devastated over her death, demanding that justice be done, especially considering Jonah is now the mayor of New York, combined with the unshakable feeling of guilt they may have failed her as parents. Not to mention Peter has the guilt of another death on his hands, not just of a kid, but of someone who became a Spider-Woman because she was his fan. That gives him a double dose of guilt. But no, Mattie instantly became an after thought even in the story in which she died. Plus, didn't Phil Urich have a thing for her, too? Hey, more fuel for his insanity, right there.

[CyberHubbs]

Probably because Marla's death was right around the corner. You don't want to do the same storyline in the span of less than twenty issues. Heck, was it even ten issues?

[mugiwara]

Plus, didn't Phil Urich have a thing for her, too? Hey, more fuel for his insanity, right there.

Urich had a thing for Turbo, but I guess he hated Mattie (and the other Loners) for beating the crap out of her at the end of the mini.
So I'd say he either didn't give a crap or smirked when he heard about her death.

[Meehaul]

What gets me about Mattie Franklin's death is that Marvel had a perfect opportunity to explore the aftermath of it, and they completely ignored it. Remember, Mattie was Jonah and Marla Jameson were her foster parents, who regarded her as their own daughter. Both of them would be devastated over her death, demanding that justice be done, especially considering Jonah is now the mayor of New York, combined with the unshakable feeling of guilt they may have failed her as parents. Not to mention Peter has the guilt of another death on his hands, not just of a kid, but of someone who became a Spider-Woman because she was his fan. That gives him a double dose of guilt. But no, Mattie instantly became an after thought even in the story in which she died. Plus, didn't Phil Urich have a thing for her, too? Hey, more fuel for his insanity, right there.

Good points. You'd think JJJ would really be beside himself with both Mattie and Marla's deaths. Perhaps Slott will pick up this thread.

[Xenon]

But they didn't really made a story of her death. Not like Dan Slott did with Marla. Her death brought back Kraven, but had zero consequences on the good guys.

She was Jonah's niece. She was killed by Spidey's foes. Because she was a Spider Woman. Because she wanted to be a super hero like Spider Man.

It should have radically changed the dynamic between Jonah and Spidey. He should have spent the rest of his life blaming him for her death, and this time, Peter couldn't have laughed it off, because he would have felt responsible (not that he was really responsible, but both Jonah and Peter would have felt that way for different reasons).

I understand that the Spider Man writers time didn't want to go that way with Jonah and Spidey, but then they shouldn't have killed Mattie.

What gets me about Mattie Franklin's death is that Marvel had a perfect opportunity to explore the aftermath of it, and they completely ignored it. Remember, Mattie was Jonah and Marla Jameson were her foster parents, who regarded her as their own daughter. Both of them would be devastated over her death, demanding that justice be done, especially considering Jonah is now the mayor of New York, combined with the unshakable feeling of guilt they may have failed her as parents. Not to mention Peter has the guilt of another death on his hands, not just of a kid, but of someone who became a Spider-Woman because she was his fan. That gives him a double dose of guilt. But no, Mattie instantly became an after thought even in the story in which she died. Plus, didn't Phil Urich have a thing for her, too? Hey, more fuel for his insanity, right there.

These are both very good posts.

Probably because Marla's death was right around the corner. You don't want to do the same storyline in the span of less than twenty issues. Heck, was it even ten issues?

That would be a very bad reason given that Marvel controls all the stories that are told. It's not like they were contractually obligated to kill Marla in 654, or Mattie in Grim Hunt. They chose to print both of those story-lines, and they chose to print them when they did.

Of course, that might not be the reason they did that, but either way it seems like they dropped the ball on that one. It's just that no one cares because no one cares about any Spider-Woman, let alone Spider-Woman #3.

[CyberHubbs]

These are both very good posts.



That would be a very bad reason given that Marvel controls all the stories that are told. It's not like they were contractually obligated to kill Marla in 654, or Mattie in Grim Hunt. They chose to print both of those story-lines, and they chose to print them when they did.

They weren't obligated to kill Marla, no. But it worked in the context of Slott's Big Time run. And Jonah's reaction is probably far more powerful when talking about the death of his spouse rather than his niece.

Not to mention that there probably just wasn't enough space in the next arc, post-Grim Hunt, to include that kind of story. I think people forget that there's only so much space between the front cover and the letter page.

Of course, that might not be the reason they did that, but either way it seems like they dropped the ball on that one. It's just that no one cares because no one cares about any Spider-Woman, let alone Spider-Woman #3.

I don't quite believe that.

[preppistonpav]

I actually just read Grim Hunt for the first time and loved it. They were going for an epic story and I think they got one - essentially, writing a story good enough to bring Kraven back. But as much as I loved it, I was pretty bummed with the way they ended it on the Kraven side of things. I thought it was pretty brilliant to essentially have a whole family of hunters; the dynamic of the characters was really interesting (although I didn't mind the death of Mrs. Kraven to be honest) and even thought it was brilliant to turn the Grim Hunter, who was basically a personality-less character, into a totally different and unique character.

On the flip side, I loved the way they effectively branched together Kraven and the mystic side of the Spider-Man mythos. The mystical stuff generally seemed kind of forced, but it actually makes sense with Kraven, who represents a top-shelf Spidey villain. It doesn't seem as forced as some other magical stories do. So maybe we'll see the return of the Kraven family as a whole unit.

And if so, it'd be great to see Mattie Franklin again too. I'd never want to see a whole Spider-Family of titles to the extent of the Batman variety, but I did think it was great to see the "family" in the comics. They should have some sort of relationship as long as it makes sense and each character has their own unique role in the mythos. I actually want to see Mattie as the new Madame Web. The unique thing about her is that, not only was she a Spider-Woman killed during Grim Hunt and not only was she JJJ adopted neice, but she was also a member of the Gathering of the Five, the (okay, terrible) mystic ritual put on by Norman. And she won the power; she has the powers of all the Spider-Women. It'd be cool to see her a sort of a ghostly/mystic Oracle-type role for Peter and maybe even Arana. (And it would be way cool if she saw the future by using her creepy spider-legs to read Julia's psiwebs.)

-Pav, who would love to see Ghost Mattie date DemoPhilgoblin...

[Dean MD]

Evil won because the story was published.

[Ramage]

Maybe there's drugs in Spider-Heaven.

Spider-Heaven is getting kind of full....

[Tendrin]

I actually enjoyed Mattie's Spider-Woman run and the character. Bratty girl playing Spiderman was fun, even if I didn't really think the title was all that great, there were bits of fun genius here or there.

To see her go out like she did and then have it be ignored bothered me.

The reason we remember stories like the Death of Jean DeWolff and Gwen Stacy is because they were treated like they *mattered*, after the fact. I wish every character's death got treated like it matters to those around them. It really doesn't feel that way and it is to the detriment of comics as a whole, if you ask me.