Is Marvel Switching to 20 Page Stories?

[Nova2814.1]

The review for FF #4 on bleedingcool mentions that the comic has only 20 pages of content. It's the latest in a number of comics that Marvel has reduced the story content for, including FF#'s 2 & 3, Incredible Hulks #'s 627 and 628, Venom #2, Herc #2 and Journey into Mystery #623.

When Tom Brevoort was questioned about this a few weeks ago, his reply only addressed FF #'s 2 & 3, and in those cases it was because the artist basically needed catch up time. Nothing was mentioned about the other titles. I've posted a few questions about this on Tom Brevoort's formspring account about this, but I've had no reply yet (my first question was over a week ago).

What I'd like to do in this thread is make a list of Marvel's comics that only have 20 pages of content (see below), with the ultimate aim of highlighting the fact that Marvel is giving retailers and readers no advance notice of the reduction in story content. If you could post the comic, including issue number, and the number of story pages, I'll keep the first posted updated with the info.

Alternatively is someone from Marvel management wants to explain why no advance notice is given, I'd be more than happy to see that!

UPDATE (17th August)
After more than 6 weeks of check, I can now confirm that Marvel has moved their $2.99 books to a 20 page count. There may be the occasional exception with more pages, but there also appear to be a few exceptions with fewer pages (glares @Spider-Girl #8). So going forward, I'm just going to focus on the standard sized $4 books, but if anyone notices that the $3 books are reverting back to 22 pages en masse, please shout.

My thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread! This is how August is looking so far for standard sized $3.99 books:

Less than 22 pages

• MOON KNIGHT #4 - 19 story pages
• ULTIMATE FALLOUT #4 - 20 story pages
• NEW AVENGERS #15 - 20 pages
• ULTIMATE FALLOUT #5 - 20 pages
• PUNISHERMAX #16 - 20 pages
• VENGEANCE #2 - 20 pages
• CAPTAIN AMERICA #2 - 20 pages
• MARVEL UNIVERSE VS WOLVERINE #3 - 20 pages
• ULTIMATE FALLOUT #6 - 21 pages
• UNCANNY X-MEN #542 - 20 pages

22 pages, or more

• WOLVERINE #13 - 22 story pages
• DARK TOWER: Battle of Tull #3 - 22 story pages, plus additional behind the scenes material
• ANITA BLAKE: Circus of the Damned - Ingenue #5 - 22 pages
• FEAR ITSELF #5 - 22 pages
• AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #667 - 23 pages
• THE STAND: The Night Has Come #1 - 22 pages, plus additional behind the scenes material
• SUPREME POWER #3 - 22 pages
• AVENGERS #16 - 22 pages
• INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #507 - 22 pages
• WOLVERINE & BLACK CAT: CLAWS 2 #2 - 22 pages
• X-MEN SCHISM #3 - 22 pages

[carabas]

I just want to point out here that 20 pages for $3 is considerably better value for money than 22 pages for $4.

[Beast]

And it's funny how nobody notices/praises when books have MORE than the usual number of story pages for the same price.

[Nova2814.1]

I just want to point out here that 20 pages for $3 is considerably better value for money than 22 pages for $4.

It is, but the expectation is that a standard comic book will have 22 pages of content and 10 pages of ad/editorial. If Marvel are changing this, then it's only fair to let people know.

And it's funny how nobody notices/praises when books have MORE than the usual number of story pages for the same price.

Then I look forward to your "More Marvel bang for your buck!! Woo hoo!!" thread, and I'll be happy to update it when I come across it (e.g. Fear Itself #1).

[Ari Gold]

if someone from Marvel management wants to explain why no advance notice is given, I'd be more than happy to see that!

I thought it was pretty obvious that they didn't make the announcement because they explicitly & publicly ripped DC for dropping 2.99 books to 20 pages.

[Beast]

It is, but the expectation is that a standard comic book will have 22 pages of content and 10 pages of ad/editorial. If Marvel are changing this, then it's only fair to let people know.

Well, that's people's fault for expecting something that was never guaranteed.

Marvel regularly delivers books with more pages than the standard. Nobody ever cries about that.

[Beast]

I thought it was pretty obvious that they didn't make the announcement because they explicitly & publicly ripped DC for dropping 2.99 books to 20 pages.

No. They publically ripped DC for doing it across the board. And rightly so.

In this case, it was a requirement to make it easier on the artist. Which has already been explained.

[Nova2814.1]

No. They publically ripped DC for doing it across the board. And rightly so.

In this case, it was a requirement to make it easier on the artist. Which has already been explained.

That was the explanation for FF #2 & 3, but no reason was given for the other issues (see my original post). It's not guaranteed that the same reason applies to all the other affected issues.

Well, that's people's fault for expecting something that was never guaranteed.

Marvel regularly delivers books with more pages than the standard. Nobody ever cries about that.

To save a lot of toing and froing, what's the minimum number of content pages you're happy with in a 32 page comic? 18? 16? 10? If you paid $3 for a 1 page illustrated plot summary and 31 pages of ads would you be happy?

[Ari Gold]

Well, that's people's fault for expecting something that was never guaranteed.

In this case, it was a requirement to make it easier on the artist. Which has already been explained.

Agreed, if this remains the only exceptions than I would understand your (& Marvel's) position.
However, if it becomes the norm for Marvel's books across the board than I would have reason to be upset bc even though it "was never guaranteed" it could be assumed by their ripping of DC's practice that Marvel would never do that to their own customers.

[Beast]

That was the explanation for FF #2 & 3, but no reason was given for the other issues (see my original post). It's not guaranteed that the same reason applies to all the other affected issues.

There could be any number of reasons in those cases. Perhaps the writer or artist didn't feel the story needed to be padded out by splash pages. And worked better with the way that it was written. Or they felt it needed to be streamlined. As long as it's not a requirement by Marvel for them to drop story pages across the board, that's fine. And for every book that's less than the normal number of pages, there's a lot more that feature extra pages for no extra charge.

To save a lot of toing and froing, what's the minimum number of content pages you're happy with in a 32 page comic? 18? 16? 10? If you paid $3 for a 1 page illustrated plot summary and 31 pages of ads would you be happy?

Now you're just being silly and downright absurd to be frank. The answer is, whatever best fits the story.

[Ari Gold]

As long as it's not a requirement by Marvel for them to drop story pages across the board, that's fine.

Would it bother you if Marvel did make it a policy across the board?

[Pixie_Solanas]

Would it bother you if Marvel did make it a policy across the board?

Yes. Because DC has shown it to be a ridiculous policy.

[GCA-FF]

Yeah, FF 4 had 20 pages of content...another good issue though!

[Nova2814.1]

There could be any number of reasons in those cases. Perhaps the writer or artist didn't feel the story needed to be padded out by splash pages. And worked better with the way that it was written. Or they felt it needed to be streamlined. As long as it's not a requirement by Marvel for them to drop story pages across the board, that's fine. And for every book that's less than the normal number of pages, there's a lot more that feature extra pages for no extra charge.

Now you're just being silly and downright absurd to be frank. The answer is, whatever best fits the story.

But it's not too much to ask Marvel to give at least retailers advance notice of this. The expectation is that a 32 page book (as solicited) will have 22 pages of content. This is a reasonable expectation given that it's been the industry standard for at least 2 decades, if not more.

It's not just a once off; it appears to apply to particular series, but then again it may not. This is the crux of the problem and that's the point of the thread.

Now, if Marvel came out and said (for example) HERC, FF, and Venom were all now at 20 pages, so that retailers and readers could be sure of what they are paying, then I'd have no problems with that. It's no skin off the noses of those that are unconcerned, and everyone else can have some certainty of what they're getting before they pick it up. But at the moment, it's haphazard and uncertain, and it's not unreasonable for retailers to have some certainty before they put in their orders, to reduce the chances of unhappy customers.

[Ari Gold]

I just checked the past 2 issues of Heroes for Hire, the 1 Marvel book I purchase, both issues were only 20 pages.