View Poll Results: Did you read Superman's denouncement of US citizenship before you commented on it?

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  • Yes

    109 60.22%
  • No

    9 4.97%
  • I don't need to read it to comment on it.

    25 13.81%
  • I'm waiting to comment until I can read the story.

    38 20.99%
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  1. #1351
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Superman isn't an American citizen. Clark Kent is.
    This is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    One can become an ordained minister online and thus can perform many of the same services that one goes through with the traditional way. And as I said, the Chruch many not recognize you, but in your heart of hearts, you are still Catholic regardless of what the Vatican says.
    This is very not. If you leave the catholic church and become a minister online, you are now no longer a catholic priest, but a minister of whatever online organization ordained you.
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  2. #1352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comics_Addict View Post
    Perhaps not explicitly but I certainly feel such vibe from that camp. Are you insinuating that the most powerful being on the planet would be THAT naive to actually spout such ideals that CAN be interpreted as patriotic to a single country and expect everyone in the fictional world roll with it? Wow, I think I am reading another Superman then.
    No, I was referring to myself, when I was a boy. I've never seen an issue of Superman where he swoops into a foreign country, saves people, then hands out red, white, and blue buntings while singing out: "Truth, Justice, and The American!" I could ask is Superman naive enough to believe that renouncing his citizenship would really cause Iran (who had not issue with him before at all) to view him differently?

  3. #1353
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    If Superman isn't an American citizen then the Border Patrol should send him back to --- oh, Krypton ain't there.
    I know you're being funny, but there's no reason to send him anywhere, since he doesn't live in the US. Nor any other country. As far as the public is concerned, he lives in the Arctic circle which last I check, doesn't have any type of governmental jurisdiction. Not to mention that by law, people can visit a country that they're not a resident of. So technically, he doesn't need a citizenship to visit Metropolis.

    Mat have some common sense would you? Your arguments are so convoluted by loving Supes that they make no sense. if you say you are not a Catholic priest, in your heart doesn't count for being a Catholoic. Do you understand that? It doesn't matter that you think you are a priest of the religion of Mat - you are not a Catholic priest.

    Geez.
    I do have common sense. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what the Church says, it doesn't change what's in your heart. That's what that person on the Superman board over at the DC forums made and that's something that I agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by liheibao
    I could ask is Superman naive enough to believe that renouncing his citizenship would really cause Iran (who had not issue with him before at all) to view him differently?
    It's not naieve to believe that maybe a gesture of good faith can go a long way. It's not naieve to want to avoid starting a war because he wanted to do some good, in a matter that is sensitive. Iran may not have had issue with him before, because he never injected himself in a political matter. What he did was essentially make the Iranian President look bad, because he was going to order the deaths of everyone who was at the protest rally, because of the very simple fact that they were protesting his government. His rule. And instead, because Superman showed up, his soldiers didn't carry out their orders and which makes him look weak. So he gets mad at Superman and chooses to hurl accusations at both him and the US. It makes the US question his motivations. Superheroes are on shaky ground as it is, and Kryptonians in particular. Clark did what his heart and conscience felt was right. Just as he's always done.

  4. #1354
    Robin Intern Comics_Addict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liheibao View Post
    No, I was referring to myself, when I was a boy. I've never seen an issue of Superman where he swoops into a foreign country, saves people, then hands out red, white, and blue buntings while singing out: "Truth, Justice, and The American!" I could ask is Superman naive enough to believe that renouncing his citizenship would really cause Iran (who had not issue with him before at all) to view him differently?
    Oh now that is all cleared up. I knew something came off wrong while reading your post. I enjoyed the story but I can agree that it creates too many issues in the larger scheme of things. I think that Goyer perhaps just used Iran as an example in the story of the climate of the times not necessarily because of the nation itself. At least that's how I understood it.

  5. #1355
    Junior Member dregj's Avatar
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    in what issue did superman ever become a US citizen?

  6. #1356
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    In Byrne's MOS # 1 and properly acknowledged in MOS # 6. Since he was "born" in America by default that makes him an American citizen.

  7. #1357
    Junior Member The Duke's Avatar
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    Just for the line "I'm a legal alien"
    "Mistah Joker, he dead."

  8. #1358

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    Quote Originally Posted by dregj View Post
    in what issue did superman ever become a US citizen?
    Superman is made an American citizen posthumously by Bill Clinton (in the comics), so that his body couldn't be removed from his grave site after his "death" fighting Doomsday. Once he returned, the citizenship still applied.

  9. #1359
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mos View Post
    In Byrne's MOS # 1 and properly acknowledged in MOS # 6. Since he was "born" in America by default that makes him an American citizen.
    Yeah, people seem to gloss that over. Of course, that had reverted a couple years prior to Action #900 back to Superman having been born on Krypton.

  10. #1360
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Yeah, but was dregj referring to the Superman persona, or the Clark Kent one.

  11. #1361
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Yeah, but was dregj referring to the Superman persona, or the Clark Kent one.
    Yeah, and the point was, Byrne's Superman was actually BORN on American soil, making him a US citizen by default. Leaving the Clark persona completely out of it, the MoS Superman actually WAS American. Conceived on Krypton, born on Earth in Kansas.

  12. #1362
    Junior Member dregj's Avatar
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    made a citizen after doomsday? I thought there'd been several resets/reboots since then?do they only discount the inconvenient parts

  13. #1363
    Senior Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dregj View Post
    made a citizen after doomsday? I thought there'd been several resets/reboots since then?do they only discount the inconvenient parts
    Prior to the new 52, nothing has really directly contradicted the death and return story, so I think it stuck.

  14. #1364
    Paladin Kurosawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dregj View Post
    made a citizen after doomsday? I thought there'd been several resets/reboots since then?do they only discount the inconvenient parts
    By the time of that story, Superman had been rebooted 3 times from Byrne's version and was born on Krypton, not Earth. So the Superman who denounced his citizenship was not Byrne's Superman, I actually consider that Superman (2002-2011) to be the Flux II period Superman (Flux I was 48-57).
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple.

  15. #1365
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    I totally forgot that BirthRight and Superman/Batman have shown that there were clearly changes in his place of birth which invalidated Byrne's MOS. Kal-el was already a baby and no longer a fetus when he was placed in the rocket in BirthRight and Superman/Batman. Thanks to everyone who remembered those events.

    If that's the case, it would be after Superman's death that he became an American citizen. That would be one of the "definitive" instance in continuity that recognize that he was American and there was no other retcons that seemed to erase what Clinton said if my memory serves me right.

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