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  1. #7516
    Lucidly Dreaming... otipep_90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    In short, based on a rumor I'd heard from another Jean fan, I'd been saying Teen Jean might get the memories of 616 Jean, but I now know that's not happening. The person I was talking to misunderstood the issue, unfortunately.
    Oh I see, I would have hoped that teen-Jean at some point would have merged with 616 adult-Jean's soul. This would be a true return like Marvel is clamoring about. I wouldn't be opposed to the memories coming from Rachel's holoempathic necklace or the sphere. But if they are second hand that's just weak.

    Thanks for sharing the pic, looks amazing.

  2. #7517
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post


    Why is it that Jean, Maddie, Rachel, and Hope are considered host(s) to the Phoenix Force while Scott, Emma, Magik, etc... Are considered possessed!
    I don't even really consider Jean just a host. That puts her on the same level as the other "Phoenixes" and I think she is more to the Phoenix than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by otipep_90 View Post
    Oh I see, I would have hoped that teen-Jean at some point would have merged with 616 adult-Jean's soul. This would be a true return like Marvel is clamoring about. I wouldn't be opposed to the memories coming from Rachel's holoempathic necklace or the sphere. But if they are second hand that's just weak.

    Thanks for sharing the pic, looks amazing.
    I was sooooo excited for the return of the real Jean and really didn't too much care how they got there once I'd been told she was back. Alas, it was not to be. I'm still pretty interested in Teen Jean, but now I'm sure everything that happens with her is going to be undone.

    And yes, that art is amazing. Stuart Immonen is a god.
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  3. #7518
    ~MagiKat~ Kaiolino's Avatar
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    You can still hold out hope for her return when the X-Men celebrate their 50th anniversary in September!

  4. #7519
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Two "returns" within one chronic year would be quite a trick, even for Jean (who really has only truly come back once in her history). I think the next two issues will give us some expectation of what's in store for Jean, however long this version sticks around for.

  5. #7520
    Omega Mutant ZNOP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    I don't even really consider Jean just a host. That puts her on the same level as the other "Phoenixes" and I think she is more to the Phoenix than that.
    I'll give you that... Jean was the only one who directly bonded with the Phoenix Force.

    Still, I maintain that the P(hony)5 were not hosts...
    Last edited by ZNOP; 01-01-2013 at 03:49 PM.
    Hear me X-men! No longer am I the woman you once knew! I am fire and life incarnate! Now and forever...

    I AM PHOENIX!

  6. #7521
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNOP View Post


    Still, I maintain that the P(hony)5 were not hosts...
    You'll find no argument with me on that point either. They are charlatans and heretics who should have burned for their blasphemy.
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  7. #7522
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    Anyways I do find myself agreeing with Jean and the post-feminist sentiment. She's never been an "I am woman; hear me roar!" type, and while it's ok for other characters to be that way with Jean it would just be bizarre. She's at her truest when she's feminine and strong in a quiet way like she has nothing to prove.
    So TRUE
    I agree, Feminism is not about having her own team, beeing leader of x-men, or being single for a while, or simply be selfish.

    She is powerfull and confident enough to be herself without scott, but some people like Jean are themselves by helping and loving others, especially the one they care about. Scott's miserable, and has been so big part of his life, that's why I think they match so much. He needs somenone to take care of him, and she needs to take care of people.
    Last edited by aries27; 01-01-2013 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #7523
    Omega Mutant ZNOP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    You'll find no argument with me on that point either. They are charlatans and heretics who should have burned for their blasphemy.
    It's still not too late
    Hear me X-men! No longer am I the woman you once knew! I am fire and life incarnate! Now and forever...

    I AM PHOENIX!

  9. #7524
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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  10. #7525
    Scarlet Witch, My #1 =) CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aries27 View Post
    So TRUE
    I agree, Feminism is not about having her own team, beeing leader of x-men, or being single for a while, or simply be selfish.

    She is powerfull and confident enough to be herself without scott, but some people like Jean are themselves by helping and loving others, especially the one they care about. Scott's miserable, and has been so big part of his life, that's why I think they match so much. He needs somenone to take care of him, and she needs to take care of people.
    I Agree with this posting as well. My First knowledge of Jean was from the 1990's Animated Show and in every other Media and Comic she has ever been in she has been a strong willed person. She is very kind and was like a sister to her fellow X-Women. She only got angry when it was called for and she could of had any man she wanted and did Scott cheat on her with Emma anyways or am I wrong on that, thought that Happen?

    But this is why the more I learn about Jean, the More she reminds me of Wanda Maximoff, they are like long lost sisters or something with how similar they are. They should be BFF's and if Jean was to every come back I would hope Scarlet Witch plays a big part in her coming back as well!




    "While I live... and until I die... I am an Avenger !"

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  11. #7526
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    I think I need to clarify what I mean by "post-feminist." It does not mean that Jean draws strength from embracing traditional gender roles like Sue Storm, pre-Inferno Madelyne Pryor, or, lets be honest here, her original Lee/Kirby conception. Honestly, I see that as more sexist than anything, and it reeks of the sort of "being a mom is just as important as saving the world" nonsense you'd expect from conservative talk radio. The failure of Sue to really establish herself apart from the rest of her team and make inroads with the fanbase despite nearly fifty years of continuous effort expended to do just that speaks to the fundamental weakness of this type of character.

    What I really mean is that in Jean's world view, gender equality is taken entirely for granted and she does not view her sex as being the most important component of her identity. To rephrase Stephen Colbert, she doesn't see gender, people tell her she's a woman and she believes them. Well, maybe she's not quite that oblivious, but it's certainly a drastic departure from the stance most of her teammates take on gender politics, whether they view a woman's place as one of dominance, like Storm and Emma, or submission, like Wolverine and Cyclops. And frankly, when it comes to filling those traditional gender roles, Jean is flat out terrible, the failure of her marriage and her troubled relationship with her daughter attest to that. When that laser cannon blasted her to bits, Maddie clearly got the lion's share of that loving maternal instinct.

    Many of the complaints regarding the viability of Jean's character in future stories revolve around her supposed lack of distinct story hook, and I think this approach gives her quite a strong role that she's uniquely suited to fill. The question of what exactly her feminine identity means to her, combined with viewpoints of a hostile world that is assuredly not egalitarian, not to mention her status as the embodiment of a primal force practically oozing with feminine symbolism, should make for some wonderful stories that can properly deal with the issues of women in comics and the wider world in general.

  12. #7527
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Jean is the kind of character that I feel represents the ideal of end point feminism. She can choose to be feminine because that's what suits her. Since we don't live an equal world sadly this type of character doesn't get much credit when compared to your more Xena like characters.

    I always thought if she were to branch out Jean would fit in well with the Avengers but it's become clear to me that Wanda already had that role locked up tight. Their friendship in the First Class series was a pleasant surprise to me that I enjoyed reading. I laughed when Jean got frustrated with the boys for being oblivious to the fact Wanda had eyes for Warren.

  13. #7528
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    Jean is the kind of character that I feel represents the ideal of end point feminism. She can choose to be feminine because that's what suits her. Since we don't live an equal world sadly this type of character doesn't get much credit when compared to your more Xena like characters.

    I always thought if she were to branch out Jean would fit in well with the Avengers but it's become clear to me that Wanda already had that role locked up tight. Their friendship in the First Class series was a pleasant surprise to me that I enjoyed reading. I laughed when Jean got frustrated with the boys for being oblivious to the fact Wanda had eyes for Warren.
    The Avengers are always looking for new members and they are lacking Telopaths badly on the Team. Also, their is always more room for kind, intelligent, level head and Friendly Women on the Avengers. I know that Wanda would welcome Jean Grey enthusiastically and they would soon become BFF's!
    "While I live... and until I die... I am an Avenger !"

    Scarlet Witch - Avengers Vol. 1 - #84

  14. #7529
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    It is odd how the Avengers have so few telepathic resources where in X world it seems like every sixth mutant has psionic powers.

    While we're on the subject of feminism here's an article I found interesting about Jean as a positive feminist portrayal.

    Link

  15. #7530
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    I Agree with this posting as well. My First knowledge of Jean was from the 1990's Animated Show and in every other Media and Comic she has ever been in she has been a strong willed person. She is very kind and was like a sister to her fellow X-Women. She only got angry when it was called for and she could of had any man she wanted and did Scott cheat on her with Emma anyways or am I wrong on that, thought that Happen?

    But this is why the more I learn about Jean, the More she reminds me of Wanda Maximoff, they are like long lost sisters or something with how similar they are. They should be BFF's and if Jean was to every come back I would hope Scarlet Witch plays a big part in her coming back as well!




    let's not forget the follow up panel where wanda uses her power to throw jean off :p

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