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  1. #7486
    Perfectly Safe Penguin ariwl1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    I think that's always been one of my favorite things about Jean, she's not afraid to be great, though of course everyone around her seems to cower in fear of her greatness. One of the reasons I never buy into this whole Cyclops being interesting BS is because this is a story we've all seen and heard dozens of times before, the triumph of mediocrity over exceptionalism, the average schlub rising above all odds to take center stage. The side that we never see of those kinds of so-called heroes, though, is that they almost invariably tend to be self-absorbed douchebags more concerned with creating their own legend than anything else. We've all seen that movie Rudy, but I'll give you one guess as to who it was that really pushed for that particular story to be told on film. And make no mistake, Cyclops right now couldn't care less about helping mutants, this is all part of his obsession with proving himself to all the people who doubted him, which of course is everyone. Walking around with that huge of a chip on your shoulder is going to lead you astray, one way or another.

    But maybe talent and ability do count for something in life, maybe responsibilities should embraced instead of treated as an unbearable burden, and maybe, just maybe, the entire world isn't working against you. One of the reasons I always see Jean as a post-feminist heroine is that her story has NEVER been about the struggle of a brave young woman finding her place in a man's world. Not only does she never see being a woman as a hindrance, but she also quite casually assumes that everyone else should already understand this. They don't of course, and this does get her into trouble from time to time. While not everyone will see this as the right attitude to have, for my money it's remarkably forward thinking. I just need these ideas to be presented more explicitly in the comics, so that un-fans don't get the wrong impression of her as some weak-willed Suzie Homemaker type.
    Funny you should mention Rudy...

    Link 1

    Link 2


    Anyways I do find myself agreeing with Jean and the post-feminist sentiment. She's never been an "I am woman; hear me roar!" type, and while it's ok for other characters to be that way with Jean it would just be bizarre. She's at her truest when she's feminine and strong in a quiet way like she has nothing to prove.

  2. #7487
    Omega Mutant ZNOP's Avatar
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    Just came across these webpage(s) with covers and pics that features Jean... Check it out
    Last edited by ZNOP; 01-01-2013 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Link(s) added.
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  3. #7488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    I know Scott will eventually be with another woman, but what I don't like is this break inbetween. I want to him to have an amazing woman by his side all the time, I believe he(and anyone male really) is a better leader when they have a devoted woman with them. Wanda makes no sense as his girlfriend, not only does he hate her guts but they are on polar opposites allegiances right now. Certainly Cyclops isn't going to change, and Wanda would have migrate from the Avengers to the Uncanny X-men, and I don't see that happening. Before she got with Fantomex I thought Psylocke would be the logical choice since he is into telepaths, but she been in through too many hands now. Cyclops is such a powerful figure in the mutant community that it's difficult to find someone who'd would be of high enough of a stature for him. Other than Storm(which won't happen) every alternative just seems week
    You know why Cyclops is single right now? Because he always treats his women like shit and keeps getting them killed! Of course every great leader needs a good woman at his side, but you seem to think that her role is just to stand there and look pretty to make him seem cool, which of course is terrible. It's really more about making the sacrifices necessary to maintain a healthy relationship, and applying those lessons in the field to create cohesion and unity amongst your teammates. Of course, when Cyclops is faced with marital problems, he runs away from them. When he found out Emma was cheating on him with Namor, he tried to choke her to death! Which by the way is another reason why editorial prefers Emma over Jean, can you picture Scott laying a hand on Jean like that, ever? Scott has been so lucky in his life with women, all three of whom are not only incredibly beautiful and intelligent, but also ready and willing to help him become a better man. In return, he has contributed literally nothing to any of those relationships, and left each of them in a worse state than when he found her. With that track record, only the most idiotic woman would even consider giving him a chance. Hmm, maybe he can give Rogue a try, she's never exactly been known as the sharpest tool in the shed.

    And of course Scott and Wanda would be a dreadful coupling, she knows much better than to get involved there, not to mention she's already got the entire male (and possibly female) population of the MU eating out of the palm of her hand and can do much, much better. Though I do like the idea that Scott is inexplicably obsessed with her despite everything she's done to oppose him over the years. Maybe after teen Jean throws him out on his ass, he can go make a creepy advance on Wanda, and she can turn him away in her best 18th century romance novel heroine voice, with a classic line like "I don't care what my father wants! I could never love a brute like you!" I would be much bemused by that.

  4. #7489
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    lmao.

    0101010101111010

  5. #7490
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    Aaaaaaand I've got a poster of the month vote for you, PwrdOff! You make excellent points, especially about Jean's lack of stereotypically feminist traits. She's not part of the feminist wave because she is ahead of it. Jean died as a was a woman in power and confidence. Hell, that's part of the reason 616 Jean had to stay dead...bitch had moved on from Cyclops and made his choice for him. Had she returned, his pining would mean even less than it does to Teen Jean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    lmao.
    Your people get weirder every day, dude.
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  6. #7491
    Scarlet Witch, My #1 =) CJStriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about that. Marvel loves to push this idea that Scott is the absolute most desirable man in the MU, so he'll wind up with a beautiful woman on his arm that should by all logic and sense be completely out of his league, but will undoubtedly be completely devoted to him while he couldn't be bothered to give her the slightest ounce of respect. Because that's what real men do, right? I'm guessing it will be Wanda, there aren't too many women out there who could reasonably be considered an upgrade over Jean or Emma, but the mysterious and magical Avenger Princess would certainly fit the bill. Scott of course has probably been infatuated with her from the beginning, and she's always had a particular weakness for crybaby losers, like Vision or Wonder Man. A match made in heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    And of course Scott and Wanda would be a dreadful coupling, she knows much better than to get involved there, not to mention she's already got the entire male (and possibly female) population of the MU eating out of the palm of her hand and can do much, much better. Though I do like the idea that Scott is inexplicably obsessed with her despite everything she's done to oppose him over the years.
    Now what I am saying is Coming from a Big Wanda Fan. I can see one way that both Wanda and Scott could meet, and have even for a brief time a time to find love in one another.

    Scott is the only one that was got Fully Possessed by the Phoenix for an extended period of time going Dark Phoenix (couple that with the Months he was with the others possessed as well, going from having 20% of the Phoenix, then 25%, 50%, 100%!). Wanda also had the Same experience with "The Life Force" Entity, which is considers similar to the Phoenix. Scott I think is finding out the hard way that no one understands what he has been threw, the closes one is Emma, but Emma has such a Mean Ego Streak (& I am a Fan of Emma as well, I like her for being this type of Character) that she wants to hear nothing from him.

    Wanda on the other hand has very, very little Ego, if any at all so if the both of them meet somewhere privately one night, Wanda would indeed listen to Him. Since only Jean could understand was Scott has been threw, but she is not around Sadly, Wanda is very Close to that. They could understand one another, Scott could finally become humble for a change and Wanda would show him why she is such a Love and Desired Women with her Kindness and humbleness to all .

    BTW, Wanda would be an upgrade for Scott! Wanda is one of (at the Very least 2nd or 3rd, compared to Storm & Jean Grey) Desired and Loved Women in the Marvel Universe history.











    Last edited by CJStriker; 01-01-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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  7. #7492
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Of course every great leader needs a good woman at his side, but you seem to think that her role is just to stand there and look pretty to make him seem cool, which of course is terrible. It's really more about making the sacrifices necessary to maintain a healthy relationship, and applying those lessons in the field to create cohesion and unity amongst your teammates.
    It has nothing to do with making him look pretty or cool. I simply think that every leader who has as much responsibility as Cyclops does needs a strong foundation of love and support and, just as importantly, a steady source of sex. Without these things I believe the leader will mistakes and be crushed under the pressure. Surely you can agree that in terms of love, support, affection and definitely sex Emma was a lot better for Scott than Jean ever was. Which is why when Jean died and he got with Emma he really transformed into an incredible leader.

    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Of course, when Cyclops is faced with marital problems, he runs away from them. When he found out Emma was cheating on him with Namor, he tried to choke her to death! Which by the way is another reason why editorial prefers Emma over Jean, can you picture Scott laying a hand on Jean like that, ever? Scott has been so lucky in his life with women, all three of whom are not only incredibly beautiful and intelligent, but also ready and willing to help him become a better man. In return, he has contributed literally nothing to any of those relationships, and left each of them in a worse state than when he found her.
    What you are doing is using specific examples to define a relationship, do you see why that doesn't make any sense? If you read all the X-men comics then you'd know Cyclops was actually a fantastic boyfriend/husband to Jean and the affair with Emma is literally the only blackspot in his relationship with Jean, while Jean screwed up in the marriage quite a few times(Wolverine being the prime example). Also Jean fans will never admit it but blaming Scott for simply thinking about having Sex with Emma, and not actually doing it, is completely ridiculous. He was also great to Emma, elevating her form being a reformed Villain to being co-leader of the X-men. He didn't choke her because of the affair, he did it to stop the avengers and Xavier from ruining his Utopia. Kieron Gillen also stated that the PF was corrupting Emma and an interpretation is that Scott was saving her from corruption. My memory of Maddie is a bit sketchy so I won't comment on that, but I'll admit he was wrong with her. That marriage was a mistake in the first place though.


    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    With that track record, only the most idiotic woman would even consider giving him a chance. Hmm, maybe he can give Rogue a try, she's never exactly been known as the sharpest tool in the shed.

    And of course Scott and Wanda would be a dreadful coupling, she knows much better than to get involved there, not to mention she's already got the entire male (and possibly female) population of the MU eating out of the palm of her hand and can do much, much better. Though I do like the idea that Scott is inexplicably obsessed with her despite everything she's done to oppose him over the years. Maybe after teen Jean throws him out on his ass, he can go make a creepy advance on Wanda, and she can turn him away in her best 18th century romance novel heroine voice, with a classic line like "I don't care what my father wants! I could never love a brute like you!" I would be much bemused by that.
    What track record? You're projecting things that didn't happen. Emma Frost and Jean Grey have a worst track record than Scott does. Rogue is perhaps the only woman worthy of Scott who I could believe getting with him. But she is not a telepath and I would prefer not to break the tradition.

    On a side note Jean was a shitty wife. She ignored him a lot and couldn't help her feelings with Wolverine. It's not a wonder he cheated on her. I find it funny that people think of her as some kind of a God and even her Husband found a better girl than her two minutes after she died.
    Last edited by Winterwind; 01-01-2013 at 10:29 AM.

  8. #7493
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    The fact of the matter is that Scott and Jean were just wrong for each other. She's no damsel in distress, and he's no knight in shining armor, and they kept trying to pretend they had this perfect fairy tale romance when they were just two regular people who simply couldn't connect on any level. And of all the things I can rag on Scott for, infidelity is certainly not one of them, mostly because he had absolutely nothing to do with it. Emma just roped in him against his will, and Jean forced the two of them together from the White Hot Room, at no point did he actually make a choice to do anything. The Jean/Logan angle was much more basic than that, Scott couldn't satisfy her so she wanted to find a man who could, a story that's older than dirt. The moral of that story was supposed to be that she made the right decision by going for the steady and stable relationship over surrendering to her basest desires, but frankly the characters don't quite fit the mold there anyway, and Jean definitely should have known better given that she witnessed the Maddie situation play out first hand. It's not so much that he was ditching his wives in a fit of passion, just that whenever something like this pops up he gets paralyzed by indecision and makes horrible choices that screw over everyone around him.

  9. #7494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    Your people get weirder every day, dude.
    My people? The clique?

  10. #7495
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    Double post.

  11. #7496
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    At what point in any story is it ever stated that Scott couldn't satisfy Jean sexually? That wasn't mentioned afaik and isn't it the other way around? Jean couldn't satisfy Scott which is he went to the sex queen in the first place.

    edit: And decision? That was the old Cyclops. The Cyclops now is Scott "get it done" Summers. See AvX for proof.

  12. #7497
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    lol Revenge of the Nerds power fantasy realized, thy name is Cyclops.
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  13. #7498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optic Rage View Post
    My people? The clique?
    Wait, I thought the Klan was separate from the X-Clique? I need to get my CBR board politics straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    At what point in any story is it ever stated that Scott couldn't satisfy Jean sexually? That wasn't mentioned afaik and isn't it the other way around? Jean couldn't satisfy Scott which is he went to the sex queen in the first place.

    edit: And decision? That was the old Cyclops. The Cyclops now is Scott "get it done" Summers. See AvX for proof.
    The entire point of Cyclops is that he can't get it up without a ton of help. Jean just didn't have time for that shit and probably considered it beneath her. Emma had no problems doing it but as we see in ANXM he requires constant treatment or else he reverts back to his old crybaby self. And what exactly did Scott "get done" in AvX anyway? If you want to give him credit for having faith in Hope, fine, but don't forget that she wasn't able to bring the mutants back until she kicked the crap out of Cyclops first, with a WHR assist from Jean.

    Anyway, all of this Cyclops talk is poisoning the Jean thread, we should continue in the Cyclops thread, though I imagine that they won't give the same wide berth for dissenting opinions that the Church has provided you here.

  14. #7499
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    Wait, I thought the Klan was separate from the X-Clique? I need to get my CBR board politics straight.
    Oh they definitely are separate. The clique isn't even real. Optic doesn't consider himself a Cycho, though.

    Denial: Not a river in Egypt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    Oh they definitely are separate. The clique isn't even real. Optic doesn't consider himself a Cycho, though.

    Denial: Not a river in Egypt.
    Wait, I thought him and Darth jointly held the title of Grand Cyclops with varying degrees of control over their rabid soldiers? Someone really needs to unify their fractured peoples under a single, revolutionary banner.

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