Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation

[aNamored]

I'm finding Hickmans' stories to be top 5 in Marvel Now, which I'm not enjoying. They have destroyed/ignored/erased too much recent Marvel history and it annoys me. So much is gone of what I liked, both character-wise and book-wise.

New X-Men is in the tops. Three of the Avengers books and maybe Red Shulkie. I have a few books to catch up on. Hickmans', although mostly new, is exciting and going somewhere I want to follow. Marvel Now is "52 boring" to me.

Glad you enjoy it. Yeah, Marvel NOW isn't my wheel barrel. I am enjoying the new team on Winter Soldier though. And I might try Uncanny X Force in trades, but outside of these, I'm either disinterested or lost.

[Rheged]

FF#4 would be a real treat. At this point I'd even be happy to have a top grade copy of the issue of the Marvel SAGA (#2 I think) that reprinted the FF#4 return of Namor; the first comic book I remember owning as a young child. That Atlas stuff in Fire & Water looks awesome. I had forgotten how many characters Everett was involved in creating and/or establishing. Namora, the Yellow Claw/Jimmy Woo, Marvel Boy, Venus . . . That's over half of my beloved Agents of Atlas right there.

Did you read the first encounter of Namor and Venus in Subby #57? I kept waiting for Namor to say something to Venus, aka Vicki Starr about that.

Agents of Atlas = AWESOME! Really miss that book.

You mean this issue?

Glad you enjoy it. Yeah, Marvel NOW isn't my wheel barrel. I am enjoying the new team on Winter Soldier though. And I might try Uncanny X Force in trades, but outside of these, I'm either disinterested or lost.

I'm giving UXF an arc. But I was surprised how much I liked Hulk, Red She Hulk, and Avengers Arena -- none of which feature characters I was particularly interested in before reading.

[Chief Jon]

Glad you enjoy it. Yeah, Marvel NOW isn't my wheel barrel. I am enjoying the new team on Winter Soldier though. And I might try Uncanny X Force in trades, but outside of these, I'm either disinterested or lost.

I'm really enjoying Uncanny Avengers. Reading it I get the same feeling as reading Claremont at his peak in the '80s. I like Buck quite a lot so maybe I'll have to catch up on Winter Soldier. I came around to him being Cap very quickly and I love the relationship dynamic that he and Namor have.

I think it was actually the issue before that, Rheged. They just showed the bit where Johnny gives Bum Namor a shave and dumps him in the ocean. Knowing what I know now about Everett's struggles with addiction I wonder if that whole reintroduction was Lee and/or Kirby making comment on Everett's relationship with Marvel/Atlas at the time?

[Rheged]

I'm really enjoying Uncanny Avengers. Reading it I get the same feeling as reading Claremont at his peak in the '80s. I like Buck quite a lot so maybe I'll have to catch up on Winter Soldier. I came around to him being Cap very quickly and I love the relationship dynamic that he and Namor have.

I think it was actually the issue before that, Rheged. They just showed the bit where Johnny gives Bum Namor a shave and dumps him in the ocean. Knowing what I know now about Everett's struggles with addiction I wonder if that whole reintroduction was Lee and/or Kirby making comment on Everett's relationship with Marvel/Atlas at the time?

Wow. I never thought of that. Interesting take! I know Roy Thomas was always trying to keep Bill Everett working, but that was much later, of course. I'm trying to think what was Everett's first Silver Age Marvel work? Was it Daredevil?

I have to agree, Brubaker wrote a great Bucky and Namor relationship. Better than his Steve and Namor ... which, now that I think about it, he never really did much with Steve and Namor. But those few pages in Winter Soldier Winter Kills and then the Man With No Face arc ... great stuff!

[Rheged]

This was in today's Axel in Charge:

New questioner Derek Metaltron wonders, "I'm very excited to hear that What If? is coming back, but I'm curious as to what format it will take, one-shots or an ongoing anthology series? I've often felt the latter would be better so as to give these alternate tales the chance to expand into multiple issues or as an mini. I'd also love to see a AVX tale where Five Avengers get the Phoenix force instead of the X-Men!"



Alonso: You might be on to something, Derek. In fact, if you've ever wondered what might have happened if the Phoenix Force had found a different host than Cyclops, Emma Frost, Namor and Colossus in last year's biggest super hero event, then you'll want to read "What If? Avengers Vs. X-Men," a 4-issue limited series, written by Jimmy Palmiotti and illustrated by Jorge Molina that ships weekly this July. I don't want to give too much away about the story, but let's just say that things might have gone a lot differently if Magneto had taken a stronger hand in determining Hope's fate.

I don't get the feeling that Namor will have a role anywhere near what had in AvX, but at least they didn't leave him off the cover, and Alonso remembered he was one of the Phoenix Five.

[Rheged]

the byrne run is OK, but kind of loses focus. HOWEVER, jae lee works on the title after and the imagery is stunning! One of my favorite tiger shark renditions. get it!

There were some great things about the Byrne run, and some things I absolutely hated. I thought the CEO thing was inspired, and perfect for the time, especially. Bryne did have a few issues, where the focus was more on the guest stars, than on Namor.

The Jae Lee run was quite polarizing when it came out, especially following Byrne's work, but it's one of my all time favorites -- though, looking at it now, I wish he hadn't quite followed the trend of muscles on top of muscles that was popular at the time. But I loved the story line and Lee's graphic, shadowy style. There was a recent interview with Jae Lee where I learned he had far more input into the story than I had thought. I'll have to see if I can find the link.

And yes. That's one thing I loved about that arc, a really cool Tiger Shark, that played up how he was Namor's shadow, a twisted image of him -- and that they did share DNA.

[Chief Jon]

There were some great things about the Byrne run, and some things I absolutely hated. I thought the CEO thing was inspired, and perfect for the time, especially. Bryne did have a few issues, where the focus was more on the guest stars, than on Namor.

The Jae Lee run was quite polarizing when it came out, especially following Byrne's work, but it's one of my all time -- though, looking at it now, I wish he hadn't quite followed the trend of muscles on top of muscles that was popular at the time. But I loved the story line and Lee's graphic, shadowy style. There was a recent interview with Jae Lee where I learned he had far more input into the story than I had thought. I'll have to see if I can find the link.

And yes. That's one thing I loved about that arc, a really cool Tiger Shark, that played up how he was Namor's shadow, a twisted image of him -- and that they did share DNA.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, as a Namor fan, that I've read very little of the Byrne run. I'm in agreement about the muscles upon muscles bit, especially given how truly beautiful and distinct Lee's work became just a few years later (starting, I think, with his collaboration with Paul Jenkins on the original Marvel Knights Inhumans series).

[Rheged]

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, as a Namor fan, that I've read very little of the Byrne run. I'm in agreement about the muscles upon muscles bit, especially given how truly beautiful and distinct Lee's work became just a few years later (starting, I think, with his collaboration with Paul Jenkins on the original Marvel Knights Inhumans series).

Exactly! His Namor in The Inhumans mini-series was gorgeous! Built much more like a swimmer. Followed by his Namor in Fantastic Four 1234, which was even more amazing. I'm so glad they got him to do the first covers of Namor's last ongoing. They were fantastic, though, perhaps Lee went in the other direction and made Namor a bit too slender. But just the imagery alone ... gorgeous. I really wish he'd done the interior art for that book.


If you'd like Bryne's art and would like to read them, Marvel is actually putting out Bryne's Namor in trade paperback now. There are two volumes out, and I'm hoping for the third volume in the fall, and that should cover all the issues he drew.





I think Byrne wanted to do something like the Atlas era Namor, where he was almost easy going and spent most of the time having adventures with Betty Dean. Unfortunately, he chose to try and explain away things that I didn't think need to be explained at all -- or even changed. The oxygen imbalance was a horrible idea, IMO, and the awful hybrid business that resulted in making Namorita a clone. Just so wrong.

But those things aside, it was a fun book, and the art was great, if you like Byrne, and he even tried a few new techniques. Greg Burgas goes into much more detail about that, and the run in his Comics You Should Own post on Byrne's Namor.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-mariner-1-25/

[Chief Jon]

Exactly! His Namor in The Inhumans mini-series was gorgeous! Built much more like a swimmer. Followed by his Namor in Fantastic Four 1234, which was even more amazing. I'm so glad they got him to do the first covers of Namor's last ongoing. They were fantastic, though, perhaps Lee went in the other direction and made Namor a bit too slender. But just the imagery alone ... gorgeous. I really wish he'd done the interior art for that book.


If you'd like Bryne's art and would like to read them, Marvel is actually putting out Bryne's Namor in trade paperback now. There are two volumes out, and I'm hoping for the third volume in the fall, and that should cover all the issues he drew.

I think Byrne wanted to do something like the Atlas era Namor, where he was almost easy going and spent most of the time having adventures with Betty Dean. Unfortunately, he chose to try and explain away things that I didn't think need to be explained at all -- or even changed. The oxygen imbalance was a horrible idea, IMO, and the awful hybrid business that resulted in making Namorita a clone. Just so wrong.

But those things aside, it was a fun book, and the art was great, if you like Byrne, and he even tried a few new techniques. Greg Burgas goes into much more detail about that, and the run in his Comics You Should Own post on Byrne's Namor.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-mariner-1-25/

Thanks for the link, Rheged. I picked up a few of those issues in a $0.50 bin some years ago, but there were no complete arcs and I ended up selling them as part of a couple of boxes filled with books I got on the cheap during a move last year. Reading that article much of the description brings to mind the Calermont/Davis and Davis/Davis runs of Excalibur of which I'm incredibly fond. That said, I've been leary of the run for exactly the reasons you mentioned; the changes and unnecessary explanations. I'm not a fan of the oxygen imbalance OR the revision of Namorita's origin and while some of the sea-creature powers Lee & Kirby attributed him in his earlier FF appearances were goofy some of them I liked and would like to see employed more often (particularly the bio-electric shock).

[Chief Jon]

Wow! So I just caught up on Hickman's New Avengers. I like what I'm seeing of Namor so far, but (of course) I already want more. Also, I strongly recommend reading this with the Battlestar Galactica Soundtrack on while reading. It was eerily fitting.

[Rheged]

Wow! So I just caught up on Hickman's New Avengers. I like what I'm seeing of Namor so far, but (of course) I already want more. Also, I strongly recommend reading this with the Battlestar Galactica Soundtrack on while reading. It was eerily fitting.

New Avengers is a great read and Hickman is just starting up. I can't imagine how he's going to ramp things up even more! And yes, Namor is in fine form, cutting right to the heart of matters with sardonic style. I do hope Hickman does more with Namor, however. More of what we saw in Hickman's portrayal of Namor from Fantastic Four -- well, at least up to the end of that arc.

I also want to see the Atlantis side of the conflict with Wakanda, and what Phoenix Namor did for the Atlanteans -- something that was completely ignored in AvX. I hope Hickman can work that in, hopefully in #7, with the throw down with T'challa.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that, but yes, this series does deserve and epic soundtrack to read by.

[Rheged]

Thanks for the link, Rheged. I picked up a few of those issues in a $0.50 bin some years ago, but there were no complete arcs and I ended up selling them as part of a couple of boxes filled with books I got on the cheap during a move last year. Reading that article much of the description brings to mind the Claremont/Davis and Davis/Davis runs of Excalibur of which I'm incredibly fond. That said, I've been leary of the run for exactly the reasons you mentioned; the changes and unnecessary explanations. I'm not a fan of the oxygen imbalance OR the revision of Namorita's origin and while some of the sea-creature powers Lee & Kirby attributed him in his earlier FF appearances were goofy some of them I liked and would like to see employed more often (particularly the bio-electric shock).

The bio-electric shock is really the only one of the Stan and Jack silver age powers that survived, IIRC. I liked how it allowed him to absorb electricity also. Besides the royal / magic connections, which I do think is a very interesting addition, I think the only other 'upgrade' Namor has gotten is Mike Carey's revelation that Namor's skin is fireproof! Though it does explain alot about his epic battles with Torch.

I remember enjoying the Claremont / Davis Excalibur very much also. Bryne's Namor isn't quite as fun or ... off the wall, but it does have that single vision and real affection for the characters that is in the those books. That said, my favorite run from that volume was the Harras and Jae Lee arc, which was more like dark fantasy.

Yeah, don't get me started about the oxygen imbalance business. Thank goodness the whole hybrid sterility thing was retconned out of existence with Kamar... though he's another whole pet peeve of mine. LOL!

[aNamored]

New Avengers is a great read and Hickman is just starting up. I can't imagine how he's going to ramp things up even more! And yes, Namor is in fine form, cutting right to the heart of matters with sardonic style. I do hope Hickman does more with Namor, however. More of what we saw in Hickman's portrayal of Namor from Fantastic Four -- well, at least up to the end of that arc.

I also want to see the Atlantis side of the conflict with Wakanda, and what Phoenix Namor did for the Atlanteans -- something that was completely ignored in AvX. I hope Hickman can work that in, hopefully in #7, with the throw down with T'challa.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that, but yes, this series does deserve and epic soundtrack to read by.

I am curious to see how issue 7 plays out. I enjoyed what little Namor I've seen in the 5 issues of New Avengers I read, but I will just live vicariously until the Black Swan stuff is done.

[Supergod]

Namor is a boss.