Elves Attack!

[Kage Kisaragi]

And they aren't human, making them genetically incompatible with human diseases.

I'm pretty sure if a species can interbreed with another that species can more thab likely be effected by the samethings that effect negatively or postively the other. ie if Humans and make Half Elves with Elves, then their physiology is close enough that human ailments can fell them just as easy as a human.

[Omegalith]

Not really a given there, they can breed fertile offspring, but they're still significantly different from a human in a wide variety of biological traits.

[Surtur]

What happens to people who lived a vegeterian like life style, then suddenly are feed red meat? What happened to Native Americans after being exposed to English diseases and vermin? What happened to many African slaves forced to live bellow deck on ships meant to ship cargo not people, the end result in all of these seems fairly applicable here to me, you are taking a group of people not natural to a type of setting and dropping them in a place where its normal inhabitants themselves already appearance sickness or worse from similar or worse conditions..

also Elves are usually described as being more lith and frail than humans.. examples like in D&D them usually have a penalty to consititution is a given sign that Elves are definitely more delicate than humans. I do remember one story were human spices as well as other foods proved to be to tough for elven digesition. It always comes back to their weaker on average bodies.

The popular elven fictions that I've seen have Elvens never experience things like Colds, or Flu, smallpox and so on. They are an immortal race that lives pretty much perfectly in harmony with nature. There is no disease among them thus there is no antibodies or medicines to common fight such illnesses. Only in fictions where Elves interact highly with other races does the idea of Elven medicine even come up, and usually its something like mending a broken bone and so on.

Except there is a variety of different versions of Elves out there that live on Earth with no problems. Some are even on the OP's list..elves from Harry Potter for instance live on Earth will no ill effects.

You really can't apply that line of thought to most Elves in fiction, not unless they have specifically shown they can't handle Earth-like atmospheres or are vulnerable to diseases native to Earth.

[Sharpandpointies]

also Elves are usually described as being more lith and frail than humans.. examples like in D&D them usually have a penalty to consititution is a given sign that Elves are definitely more delicate than humans. I do remember one story were human spices as well as other foods proved to be to tough for elven digesition. It always comes back to their weaker on average bodies.

The popular elven fictions that I've seen have Elvens never experience things like Colds, or Flu, smallpox and so on. They are an immortal race that lives pretty much perfectly in harmony with nature. There is no disease among them thus there is no antibodies or medicines to common fight such illnesses. Only in fictions where Elves interact highly with other races does the idea of Elven medicine even come up, and usually its something like mending a broken bone and so on.

None of which are applicable to Lord of the Rings elves, who are stronger and tougher than humans, as well as being virtually immune to disease.

Anything we have, they laugh off.

The D&D depiction of elves isn't exactly a good depiction of elves as a whole. :)

[Omegalith]

The D&D depiction of elves isn't exactly a good depiction of elves as a whole. :)

I'm not sure I'd say that... The "everything including the kitchen sink" aspect of D&D leads it to cover all the Elf stereotypes somewhere if you look hard enough.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm not sure I'd say that... The "everything including the kitchen sink" aspect of D&D leads it to cover all the Elf stereotypes somewhere if you look hard enough.

If we're getting into 'all elves are frail and weak compared to humans', it falls short.

[Omegalith]

If we're getting into 'all elves are frail and weak compared to humans', it falls short.

I suppose, though as Elves would seem to be a higher Level on-average race it still balances in their favour.

Not that many 1st-level Commoner Elves running around in most settings.

[Sharpandpointies]

I suppose, though as Elves would seem to be a higher Level on-average race it still balances in their favour.

Not that many 1st-level Commoner Elves running around in most settings.

I'm just talking about the general D&D idea that elves are all frail and lithe. Going into fiction, that's not always the case - some of them, including the Norse Elves (included in the OP) aren't supposedly any more frail than humans (not that I've found) and many seem tougher, while Tolkien's Elves (again, in the OP) are tougher, stronger, and more hardy than normal men.

[GozertheGozarian]

I suppose, though as Elves would seem to be a higher Level on-average race it still balances in their favour.

Not that many 1st-level Commoner Elves running around in most settings.

The vast majority of every race is 0 level, only adventurers get levels. It was in 1st and 2nd editions, at least.

[Sharpandpointies]

The vast majority of every race is 0 level, only adventurers get levels. It was in 1st and 2nd editions, at least.

Actually, the reason Elves, Gnomes and Dwarves were such horrific butt-kickers in 1st Edition, civilization-wise, is that unlike Humans and Halflings, they were at the least 1 HD creatures - Dwarves being 1 HD, Mountain Dwarves 1+1, and Elves 1+1. :)

Poor humans and halflings were 0-level wussies (and halflings actually got all kinds of bonuses to hit with slings and bows, as well as hiding abilities, so non-adventurer humans really got the short end of the stick).

[GozertheGozarian]

Didn't they get 1 HD for HP, but attacked as 0?

[Sharpandpointies]

Didn't they get 1 HD for HP, but attacked as 0?

Nope. They actually attacked as first level fighters in 1st edition. :) Scary, no?

Hence, the reason they did so well against hordes of orcs.

[Kage Kisaragi]

None of which are applicable to Lord of the Rings elves, who are stronger and tougher than humans, as well as being virtually immune to disease.

and hence we kill them with tech..

also what examples of them being tougher and stronger than humans are there? jumping on things? being of lighter weight and smaller build actually gives more to that than being stronger. Tougher? How so? not succumbing to environmental conditions like cold of heat?

If im not to generalize, then prehapes the thread should distinguish between all the elves, their traits, weaknesses, technology, physiology and so on. Its like me asking "Hey, you know all the aliens decided that they want to rule the world, they all attack each of the follow earths." without me describing or at least giving a reference to the individual aliens, people are going to generalize the most cross-spectrum traits of aliens as oppose to "Oh gosh i guess the aliens cause there is no way way those worlds have anything that could stop them.." which may or may not be the case.

Yes not all Elves are frail or lith, not all elves are immortal either or have cultures that excel at magic, or have innately superior or quick minds than humans. However since the topic doesn't go into any detail then i don't see the problem in using stereotypes, its why we have them.

[Sharpandpointies]

also what examples of them being tougher and stronger than humans are there? jumping on things? being of lighter weight and smaller build actually gives more to that than being stronger. Tougher? How so? not succumbing to environmental conditions like cold of heat?

It's all through the Silmarillion - the Noldor and Sindar, even the 'normal' ones (not the name-level ones) are more capable, stronger, and tougher than humans. Disease doesn't touch them, they deal with wounds that can kill men, they survive extremes of heat and could that would wipe humans out, they fight for days on end, that sort of thing.

It has nothing to do with jumping on things, and everything to do with the capacity to kick rear and take names.

Only the toughest, best of humans can keep up with them. And the toughest, best of the elves make the toughest, best of the humans look like jokes.

This is also flat-out stated in Tolkien's own letters and writing when he talks about elves.

[Sharpandpointies]

However since the topic doesn't go into any detail then i don't see the problem in using stereotypes, its why we have them.

Additionally, my original comment was in reply to your assertation that the elves would all die from disease. Thus, me going into detail to correct the stereotype.

Point being that Tolkien's elves won't, and likely not the Norse Elves, either, being magical creatures who aren't presented as sickly things. :)