The Traitor Game Discussion Thread Part 5

[Deadpooligan]

Well its been awhile and I had to dig to the third page to find it so bumping this baby up with a question and some ideas.

As the vampire TT's finishing up, I'm curious to see if there's any interest for an Award Show to be kicked off, if not for anything else then as a form of farewell to the Traitor Games of old, considering the fact if they will continue or not.

Sure. I don't know if you need me to organize it with you, but it covers, what, Games 33 to now? With a tale or two in the wake of MODOK?

The categories don't need changing from last year;

Best Scenario (Game/Tale)
Best Host (Game/Tale)
Best Traitor (Game/Tale)
Best Agent (Game/Tale)
Best Vigilante (Game/Tale)
Best Rivalry
Best In-Game Group/Alliance
Best Comedic Moment
Best Dramatic Moment
Best Portrayal
Best Player

Regarding that, if they are going to continue I have an idea regarding the kills and how ambiguous they are, because let's face it, it's not a lot of mystery solving and more throw accusations around until you strike gold.

One idea I had was to basically implement the way the other TG did the kills in that the traitors have to leave some sort of clue at the scene of the crime, but at the same time they can also drop a red herring or two to not make it so obvious on who the culprit is. Also the fact that the traitors can only use their own skills and what they can find in their surroundings to do the kills, I'm not sure if this is already a thing but at times the kills can end up being pretty far out there in terms of what tools were used in a particular kill.

There was also a thing regarding just one massive voting round a week so everyone can catch up but I don't think that's necessary, but I don't know how good idea that is in the long run.

And that's about it for my ramblings. Any thoughts about this?

We've minced words over this before, and I think that the kill aspect, no matter how you slice it, is still sort of forced. Your idea is a progression of continuing the games as a murder-mystery, which is fine, but I think the Games' true future lies in a traditional RPG.

The question arises, do we keep the elements that made the game sort of unique unto itself, or do we cater to what we all come for, writing characters as part of a larger story?

I might be interested on some kind of joint RPG adventure with the gang that didn't exactly use the Traitor Game format. Something like Game XXX, which I wouldn't call a real Traitor Game in the true sense of the term, but took several elements from those.

Having authored that one myself, I again give my full support for my own idea. All worries about possible railroading, which seem the majority complaint, I believe will be quelled by not having a rigid timeframe/schedule.

A straightforward RP is the way to go. If we want murder-mystery elements in a story that badly, there's no problem catering to it every once in a while.

Have a look again;

But in the wake of War of The Exiles, there's something on all of our minds, and may have been for some time now-- what's next? In my banterings with Superheroic, he summed it up magnificently; we continue the Exiles concept.

Though that certainly sounds endearing enough considering the reception Purp and I have graciously received from you all (and from Donald, who didn't even play!), there's more. For a while now (and I've said this a million times), the Traitor Game is focused mostly on the actual writing of characters and scenarios than it has been on a strategic and voting aspect.

Moving forward, we would transition from this Survivor/Mafia Game into a standard role-playing game. Hosts would rotate as we changed scenarios and worlds, characters would come and go as the players felt like it (and as is appropriate in the narrative). It would move at a more relaxed pace and be easy for new people to ingrain themselves into our existing community. I mentioned this to a few of the old vets, but I wanted to know what everyone thought.

As far as a new title, how about The Traitor's Legacy?

[Jeremi]

Deadpooligan has said he has something a bit like that in mind.

Still, one thing the Traitor Games have going for them is that they have a structure that guarantees that each one has a beginning, a middle, and an end. There's the beginning where the characters and conflicts are introduced, the middle where the twists and turns happen, and the end where the major conflicts are resolved and the characters move on from there.

If we're not using the 'voting' and so forth of the Traitor Games in the proposed 'different idea', then some sort of other structure would have to replace it so that we still have payoff/resolution to the story eventually.

That's also one of the big reasons I've stuck around with the TGs, that and the fact that you know you're not going to spend like half a year on a thing that might not even be finished in the long run.

Sure. I don't know if you need me to organize it with you, but it covers, what, Games 33 to now? With a tale or two in the wake of MODOK?

The categories don't need changing from last year;

That sounds about right, yeah. First thing to do would be to start nominating stuff and find anyone who wants to host.

I'd be up for it but if anyone else feels like they want to step up feel free to do so.

We've minced words over this before, and I think that the kill aspect, no matter how you slice it, is still sort of forced. Your idea is a progression of continuing the games as a murder-mystery, which is fine, but I think the Games' true future lies in a traditional RPG.

The question arises, do we keep the elements that made the game sort of unique unto itself, or do we cater to what we all come for, writing characters as part of a larger story?

I do think we could continue with the Traitor Game formula, but what's to say that we don't go and try something new in the mean while and get back to it somewhere down the line? Because some of the TG ideas I've heard from people still sound pretty neat.

Having authored that one myself, I again give my full support for my own idea. All worries about possible railroading, which seem the majority complaint, I believe will be quelled by not having a rigid timeframe/schedule.

I have to agree with that too.

[OverMaster]

I think we could try a different sort of self contained RPG first, then, depending on the results, we could decide if going on from there or going back to the TG format.

After all, I think what matters the most here is the community (which desperately needs more new blood, by the way) and the crossover aspects themselves, above the murder mystery pattern.

[Jeremi]

I think we could try a different sort of self contained RPG first, then, depending on the results, we could decide if going on from there or going back to the TG format.

After all, I think what matters the most here is the community (which desperately needs more new blood, by the way) and the crossover aspects themselves, above the murder mystery pattern.

I've invited a few and even had a couple of those stick around for a couple of games, though most have been put off by the hectic schedule as well as the voting.

So if we're going to try something more akin to a regular rp then we might see some more people.

[Froggy]

all i know is if we do the exiles thing again

Jono (starsmore) hex is in the building

[Chris Lang]

That's also one of the big reasons I've stuck around with the TGs, that and the fact that you know you're not going to spend like half a year on a thing that might not even be finished in the long run.

Indeed. I have had my experiences with more open-ended RPGs in my distant online past.

The Battlestar Galactica group I was a part of fifteen years ago had a number of ongoing RPG storylines inspired by the original series. One was set closer to the original timeframe, the other was set several decades after Galactica finally found Earth. It was the latter that got me especially invested, since early on a really horrible human villain (we had a number of human villains since even the original show couldn't get away with only having the Cylons as the antagonists. And the re-imagined version had to create humanoid versions and 'sleeper agents' because the classic Cylons, aside from the IL series ones with human-like personalities, were pretty one-dimensional) killed off one of the original series' characters in a surprise attack, along with dozens of other people.

My character swore she'd make him pay, while the villain continued on his path, being to that storyline what Tavington was to the movie 'The Patriot'. In other words, he was the Complete Monster who kept doing horrible things, and I for one wanted to see him get his. My heroine did capture him briefly, but he escaped. And then the guy who played him disappeared.

The story continued for several more years, with other human antagonists, and political controversies. It went on like a soap opera for a while, until people got tired of it and started drifting away. Eventually, it was proposed that a new 'decades after Galactica finds Earth' story be started, but I didn't want the old one to go away with a whimper with what I considered to be the most important loose ends still unresolved. With the guy who played the villain still missing three years later, I decided to bring back the villain myself and have the heroine have a final showdown with him.

In the end, she and the villain faced off in the villain's lair, and she chose to personally execute him right there so that he wouldn't escape to keep killing people. I had the villain activate his teleport device in an attempt to escape ... only to apparently be fried when the teleport went wrong (I say apparently because while my primary purpose was closure, I wanted to give some ambiguity just in case the player returned and wanted to play the villain again. As it turned out, he resurfaced and he liked the conclusion to the story so it stood as the villain's final fate).

I also was involved in other open-ended RPGs that never had resolution. The people involved drifted away, and I was one of the few people left genuinely interested in resolving a story that I wasn't even around for the start of.

All in all, I'd rather not go through all that again. I don't want to be in another RPG that has a beginning and an endless middle that never ends before the people who started it get tired of it. So that's why I've been saying that if we don't use the 'Mafia/Werewolf' kills/voting structure for the new idea, we'll need another sort of structure entirely so we can have something guaranteed to have a beginning, middle, and an end.

That sounds about right, yeah. First thing to do would be to start nominating stuff and find anyone who wants to host.

I'd be up for it but if anyone else feels like they want to step up feel free to do so.

I'd be willing to help with the Awards Show. Of course, the Purple Skull's been such a big part of the previous Award Shows that it'd seem strange if he wasn't there in some capacity. Fortunately, I checked and he HAS visited today, so it's not like he's trapped in New Jersey: No Man's Land without a Batman to help him.

I do think we could continue with the Traitor Game formula, but what's to say that we don't go and try something new in the mean while and get back to it somewhere down the line? Because some of the TG ideas I've heard from people still sound pretty neat.

I have to say I agree. The thing is, Doug Walker can get away with retiring the Nostalgia Critic because the Nostalgia Critic is pretty much all him, with help from Rob Walker. When he and Rob felt the show was running its course and they were running out of new variations on the same formula, they could easily decide to end the show and focus on new projects such as Demo Reel.

The Traitor Games, however, aren't just the brainchild of one person. They're run by a community. If some members of the community still want to do scenarios using the Traitor Game formula, we shouldn't stand in their way.

As for me, I'm open to both further Traitor Games, and other RPG scenarios as long as they DO have a structure that guarantees a resolution eventually.

And of course, something that avoids too much railroading IS a good thing.

[Jeremi]

all i know is if we do the exiles thing again

Jono (starsmore) hex is in the building

Yeah I have a few ideas brewing too, some being established AU characters.

Indeed. I have had my experiences with more open-ended RPGs in my distant online past.

Mine hasn't been so far into the past.

I'd be willing to help with the Awards Show. Of course, the Purple Skull's been such a big part of the previous Award Shows that it'd seem strange if he wasn't there in some capacity. Fortunately, I checked and he HAS visited today, so it's not like he's trapped in New Jersey: No Man's Land without a Batman to help him.

Right well, as mentioned we need to start to nominate stuff before anything else can happen.

The Traitor Games, however, aren't just the brainchild of one person. They're run by a community. If some members of the community still want to do scenarios using the Traitor Game formula, we shouldn't stand in their way.

Agreed.

As for me, I'm open to both further Traitor Games, and other RPG scenarios as long as they DO have a structure that guarantees a resolution eventually.

I know the few ideas I have would seek to get a resolution at least.

I was thinking of re-tooling my Venture Bros TG idea into more of a Action Adventure rp.

[Chris Lang]

"Hostess Fruit Pies is going out of business? Grrr!!!!"

"Where am I going to get my Twinkies and Fruit Pies now? I was even considering going straight because I liked the taste of them so much, but now...."

The above villainess with the supersonic hair dryer is most likely far from the only one upset.

Indeed, a lot of the villains both Marvel and DC heroes faced in one-page features in the late 70s and early 80s cannot be happy about the recent Hostess situation. We can add the Chocolate Baron, the Corsair of Crime, the Magpies, Jet Set Jessie, June Jitsu, the Ding-a-Ling Family, the Pigeon Person, the corrupt Cindy Bluestreet, and numerous others to the list of supervillains who are about to be deprived of their favorite snack.

The Crime Director, meanwhile, is happy, as it was only his henchmen who dropped what they were doing when the hero gave them Hostess Fruit Pies.

Now I'm wondering if we should set the Traitor Game Awards Show in an abandoned Hostess Fruit Pie factory. :)

[Chris Lang]

Well, I think things have been just a little too quiet here for my liking.

With another Awards Show under consideration, at least, I thought I'd look back at the roles I've played since the previous one.

Traitor Game Deadly Reunion: Franziska von Karma -- She's certainly different from my usual stable, and I think I brought my A-game to her. I enjoyed that game a lot.

Traitor Game Under Sea: Arisia is probably my least favorite performance in a Traitor Game. She was a last-minute pick, and it shows. Really, it shows. I jumped in, not even entirely sure of which version of Arisia I was playing, and my portrayal suffered greatly for it.

Traitor Game Fight to Save the Soul of the 70s: Princess Leia was a much better choice, since of course she's a character I've known since I was a kid. Of course when the situation called for it, she could certainly take charge of a situation. Still, I would have liked to have been able to play a character from Earth who recognizes all the 70s pop culture references. As it was, being someone from a galaxy far far away, she had to have it explained to her. Still, I had fun working in references to some of the more unusual Star Wars spinoffs. I worked in references to both the infamous Holiday Special, and the Star Wars Christmas Album ('Christmas in the Stars', featuring classics such as the title track, 'R2-D2 We Wish You a Merry Christmas', and 'What Can You Get A Wookie For Christmas (When He Already Owns a Comb)'.

Traitor Game Sweet As Can Be: The concept behind this one was one that was an interesting idea (take a whole bunch of villains, anti-heroes, and other unpleasant characters, and trap them in Ponyville under restrictions that they can't murder anyone), but in the end it kind of suffered as many of us didn't really know what to do with the concept. Still, there was some nice character interaction. I reprised Mystique (who I'd previously played in Traitor Game 25: Crisis) for this one, and I think she did better the previous time. I attempted to move her subplot forward, though I still haven't filled in her epilogue.

Traitor Tale - Crime Pays ... In Blood: Indigo Al, I think, suggested I play a Hostess Fruit Pie villain for this one. I chose the unnamed woman with the supersonic hair dryer from the ad starring the Human Torch, titled 'Blown Away'. As she didn't have a name or a backstory, this gave me creative freedom to supply both. I had fun playing Maxine Powell as a minor supervillain who's content to pull the occasional robberies with her gimmick, but here finds herself in the middle of a gang war. I also worked in references to other villains from Hostess Fruit Pie advertisements along the way.

Traitor Game - The Dark Reign of Kulan Gath: The 'Gathed' Barbara Gordon was another character I struggled with, though it's a decent portrayal compared to Arisia.

Traitor Game - Clash of the Chaos Warriors: This was one I had fun with. Pairing Betty Brant and Lotta Hart in a Marvel vs. Capcom crossover was a fun idea, and I went all out with it, coming up with an Ace Attorney style case to bring them together in the first place. I had fun interacting with the other duos, such as Volstagg and Dan Hibiki, Rogue and Roll, and Spider-Man and Nero. Bringing out Franziska von Karma every now and then in the Inquisitor role was also nice. So yes, this is one I had fun with.

Traitor Game: War of the Exiles. I've wanted to post further musing on my character choices for quite a while now. But my commentary on the game is being indefinitely delayed because Deadpooligan told me not to post it until he and the Purple Skull are done with THEIR commentary. Still, I think I came up with some good alternate universe versions of characters. Irene was in part inspired by the original comics, in part inspired by her literary namesake, and in part inspired by Miss Marple. And Storm's alternate world was sort of inspired by plots in the 80s that you don't see anymore due to the fall of the Soviet Union.

I tried my best to give both of these characters their due. Of course, it was also fun revisiting old favorites.

Anyway, that's my quick look back at all the characters I've played since the fourth Award Show.

[Chris Lang]

Uh oh. Just stumbled across this in the most recent episode of Atop The Fourth Wall, where Linkara reviews 'Brave and the Bold #54' featuring Robin, Kid Flash, and Aqualad (three of the founding members of the Teen Titans).

How does this relate to the Traitor Games? Well, let me transcribe Linkara's speech on why he does NOT make fun of Aquaman, and let you see for yourself:

What's that? You want me to start making jokes about how useless Aquaman is? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

(turns more serious)

Aquaman is the King of Atlantis, whose domain pretty much encompasses the entirety of the ocean. He owns seventy percent of the planet. He is super-strong, super-fast, and he can summon Cthulhu to eat your soul if he felt like it.

At this point, I found myself laughing out loud. This is probably just coincidence, and Linkara has never read Traitor Game 24: A Traitor's Life For Me, but I thought that line was hilarious considering that in the climax of that game, Aquaman (role-played by Deadpooligan) summons a lesser version of Cthulhu to fight the Kraken in a Summon Bigger Fish strategy.

Of course Linkara's point is that Aquaman is AWESOME. And I'm sure Deadpooligan would agree.

[Anodyne]

[B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]"Hostess Fruit Pies is going out of business? Grrr!!!!"

I hear Hostess may be getting a reprieve: a judge has ordered the company and the union to try mediation before liquidation.

[tangentman]

I've read that Hostess screwed over their employees with sub-par bonuses, while the executives take an obscene pay and other heinous acts of class warfare. Nothing unique these days, considering the bullshit we're hearing from Papa John's CEO. Still, as much as I've enjoyed the Hostess products over the years, I'm on the side of their workers.

TG stuff: I agree w/Anodyne. The hectic pace can seem as off-putting as the "endless middle". It's hard to stay invested when you leave, come back to a fuck-ton of posting flurry, and feel left behind. I just can't spend ALL day on the Internet anymore; don't have the luxury. If the games adopted the more casual approach of most play-by-posts, then I could see the game going on as a RPG. Leaving to come back to 18+ pages of updates is just over the top, imo.

[Anodyne]

Traitor Game: War of the Exiles. I've wanted to post further musing on my character choices for quite a while now. But my commentary on the game is being indefinitely delayed because Deadpooligan told me not to post it until he and the Purple Skull are done with THEIR commentary.

There's going to be more commentary from DP and Purps re the Exiles Game? Oh, Goody! I think I did pretty well there, but it would still stroke my ego to have someone else say so.

TG stuff: I agree w/Anodyne. The hectic pace can seem as off-putting as the "endless middle".

I agree with me too, but when did I say that? Are you sure you didn't mean Chris Lang?

[tangentman]

Oops! I meant Jeremi!

[Chris Lang]

I've read that Hostess screwed over their employees with sub-par bonuses, while the executives take an obscene pay and other heinous acts of class warfare. Nothing unique these days, considering the bullshit we're hearing from Papa John's CEO. Still, as much as I've enjoyed the Hostess products over the years, I'm on the side of their workers.

Well, I wasn't getting involved in the politics of the situation. I just thought, given the nods we've given to certain Hostess Fruit Pie advertisements, that I should give a sort of nod to it.

TG stuff: I agree w/Anodyne. The hectic pace can seem as off-putting as the "endless middle". It's hard to stay invested when you leave, come back to a fuck-ton of posting flurry, and feel left behind. I just can't spend ALL day on the Internet anymore; don't have the luxury. If the games adopted the more casual approach of most play-by-posts, then I could see the game going on as a RPG. Leaving to come back to 18+ pages of updates is just over the top, imo.

The 'hectic pace' was a problem especially in certain parts of Exiles, particularly the Excalibur/Iron Man part where the setting changed at least two times before its end, leaving people struggling to keep up. There's a reason why I've never hosted Traitor Games where the setting's constantly changing ... it's because I thought keeping mostly to a specific setting was better for the players. They could, if they wished, take advantage of setting elements, and the setting would still be more or less the same every round.

Still, I do prefer structures that guarantee a beginning, a middle, and an end.