Heavyweight Throwdown: Hobgoblin vs Venom Debut Stories!!

[oldschool]

Well, what better for a slow Super Bowl Monday than to watch another 2 heavyweights go at it?? Yes, time for a new throwdown and let's make this one simple and to the point: the debuts for the (inarguably) last 2 great Spidey foes, Hobgoblin and Venom!


*ASM 238-239 ("Shadow of Evils Past") by Roger Stern and John Romita Jr: Easily one of my favorite tales of Uncle Rog's epic run, this perfect 2-part tale introduced what would become the defining villain of the decade (1980's) for Spidey and told it concisely, tantalizingly and with great artwork by JRJR! Not too much to say here; everyone knows (or should know) this story and it is an undisputed classic! Much like:

*ASM #300 ("Venom!") by David Michelenie and Todd McFarlane: If the Hobgoblin was the Spidey foe for the 1980's (and he was), then Venom was indubitably his counterpart for the 1990's! Debuting just a few years short of the dawn of the 1990's, this issue deservedly ranks among the all-time great Spidey stories IMHO. It was the issue where a young Todd McFarlane flexed his muscles and really put his mark on Spidey after a several-issue "warmup"! The story itself is fantastic: rarely do we see Peter in such a distraught state and with a feeling of real peril as when he met Venom and knew he was up against someone with all his powers (arguably stronger) and did not activate his spider-sense and knew his identity! Just a stellar story that holds up perfectly nearly a quarter century later!


Two very, very evenly-matched epic stories in my opinion but, if you had to pick one, what do you choose??

[Schmed]

This one was easy for me, 238-239 are some of my favorite comics of all time. #300 was great but for me, Hobbys 1st appearance is the best villain 1st appearance of all time (yeah I said it!). Intrigue, mystery, a great battle that ends with out a clear winner leaving Spidey to wonder when this mystery man will strike again..... with the legacy of Norman Osborn hanging heavy over his head....just classic.

[Russ840]

I have had to go with Venom.

He is my favorite villain of all time ( well in these early appearances )

I really love those early Hobby issues but Venom has always done it for me.

[Russ840]

Well, what better for a slow Super Bowl Monday than to watch another 2 heavyweights go at it?? Yes, time for a new throwdown and let's make this one simple and to the point: the debuts for the (inarguably) last 2 great Spidey foes, Hobgoblin and Venom!


*ASM 238-239 ("Shadow of Evils Past") by Roger Stern and John Romita Jr: Easily one of my favorite tales of Uncle Rog's epic run, this perfect 2-part tale introduced what would become the defining villain of the decade (1980's) for Spidey and told it concisely, tantalizingly and with great artwork by JRJR! Not too much to say here; everyone knows (or should know) this story and it is an undisputed classic! Much like:

*ASM #300 ("Venom!") by David Michelenie and Todd McFarlane: If the Hobgoblin was the Spidey foe for the 1980's (and he was), then Venom was indubitably his counterpart for the 1990's! Debuting just a few years short of the dawn of the 1990's, this issue deservedly ranks among the all-time great Spidey stories IMHO. It was the issue where a young Todd McFarlane flexed his muscles and really put his mark on Spidey after a several-issue "warmup"! The story itself is fantastic: rarely do we see Peter in such a distraught state and with a feeling of real peril as when he met Venom and knew he was up against someone with all his powers (arguably stronger) and did not activate his spider-sense and knew his identity! Just a stellar story that holds up perfectly nearly a quarter century later!


Two very, very evenly-matched epic stories in my opinion but, if you had to pick one, what do you choose??

Also Dude, totally agree with what you say about being the last 2 great villains

Awesome poll as well

[ShaggyB]

I love Venom.... but clearly hobgoblin beats him.

[Mikey Brown]

I gotta go with Venom, just because those were some of the first Spidey comics I read as a kid.

[oldschool]

I love Venom.... but clearly hobgoblin beats him.

Let's keep in mind the poll is about those 2 stories and not necessarily how we feel about the villains. (Not saying you are doing that but want to be clear that this is not a "Who's better, Hobby or Venom" poll).

[brundlefly]

This one was easy for me, 238-239 are some of my favorite comics of all time. #300 was great but for me, Hobbys 1st appearance is the best villain 1st appearance of all time (yeah I said it!). Intrigue, mystery, a great battle that ends with out a clear winner leaving Spidey to wonder when this mystery man will strike again..... with the legacy of Norman Osborn hanging heavy over his head....just classic.

QFT. Hobs' debut two-parter was absolutely stellar and also set up many intriguing threads for their future encounters (Hobby's quest to decipher the Goblin formula and thus become Spidey's match in strength & stamina; Spidey's race-against-the-clock to keep Hobby from uncovering whichever journal his secret ID was written down in before Hobby read it). Hobby's 'mystery man' hook, his awesome costume makeover, and the rational, methodical approach he had (which differentiated him from Norm and Harry) made him a breakout new Spidey villain and he's still one of my three all-time faves (along with Ock and Harry-as-GG2). ASM #238-239 was a great start to a classic run as Spidey's major nemesis, until that editorial clusterf**k ended his reign almost 50 issues later in ASM #289.

As far as Venom goes, I thought that his actual one-page debut in the prior issue (ASM #299) was much stronger anything he did in #300. In #299, MJ mistakes a black-costumed Venom for Peter until a sinister Joker-smile slowly spreads across his mask and she screams in horror. That one page really had me hooked for #300, but I thought that Venom too quickly degenerated there into cartooniness, thus squandering the powerful impact of that scene with MJ in the previous issue.

[ShaggyB]

Let's keep in mind the poll is about those 2 stories and not necessarily how we feel about the villains. (Not saying you are doing that but want to be clear that this is not a "Who's better, Hobby or Venom" poll).

was speaking of the stories when i said that. Preferred Stern's.... though McFarlane wasnt that bad

[oldschool]

was speaking of the stories when i said that. Preferred Stern's.... though McFarlane wasnt that bad

I wasn't sure and just wanted to throw that out there so others don't go with the vote of which villain they prefer as they may or may not match up with their debut story. It's possible someone prefers Venom as a villain but thought ASM #238-239 was a superior story to ASM #300 (may not seem likely but it is possible!).

[Mister Mets]

Hmm, good selection.

Venom's debut may be one of my 25 favorite Spider-Man stories.

But Hobgoblin's debut is certainly in my Top 25.

So I'll give the edge to that story.

[D. Perez]

Hobgoblin is my favourite villain but about opening story I actually gotta go with #300 with Venom. Is showed Venom, the fight and then ended the story nicely. The Hobgoblin story introduced a great villain but left a lot of thing opened and was more a good beginning that a single story. It was the next story were he got his power that started the greatest.

Well that's my opinion

[oldschool]

Hobgoblin is my favourite villain but about opening story I actually gotta go with #300 with Venom. Is showed Venom, the fight and then ended the story nicely. The Hobgoblin story introduced a great villain but left a lot of thing opened and was more a good beginning that a single story. It was the next story were he got his power that started the greatest.

Well that's my opinion

....and that is what this thread is all about!!

[D. Perez]

....and that is what this thread is all about!!

Then I did it right

[Karl Cook]

As much as I love Hobgoblin, my vote has to go to Venom; purely for the psychological terror approach of his introduction.
He actually had Peter terrified for his family and Venom made sure he knew it.