Ultimate Sales Discussions

[Wolverine12]

Of course previous experience will affect current opinions. If you walk up to a man and he gives you a dollar you'll like him. You do the same thing for years with the same or similar results everytime and you're really going to like this man a lot. Then lets say 9 years from your first encounter the dude kicks you in the nuts. You're gonna be pissed for a while for sure and the next time you see him you'll be cautious maybe even scared. You muster up the courage to up to him anyways and he gives you another dollar. Sure you may still be mad about the nut shot but a bucks a buck so you keep going back. Ever since the nut shot he's gone back to giving you a buck so you start to relax and enjoy him again, BUT you'll never forget that time he kicked you in the nuts.

I hope I don't need to explain my analogy.

You can have opinions based on single issues but previous experience will affect it. This isn't a good/bad thing it's just how the human mind works.

[MarvelMaster616]

Of course previous experience will affect current opinions. If you walk up to a man and he gives you a dollar you'll like him. You do the same thing for years with the same or similar results everytime and you're really going to like this man a lot. Then lets say 9 years from your first encounter the dude kicks you in the nuts. You're gonna be pissed for a while for sure and the next time you see him you'll be cautious maybe even scared. You muster up the courage to up to him anyways and he gives you another dollar. Sure you may still be mad about the nut shot but a bucks a buck so you keep going back. Ever since the nut shot he's gone back to giving you a buck so you start to relax and enjoy him again, BUT you'll never forget that time he kicked you in the nuts.

I hope I don't need to explain my analogy.

You can have opinions based on single issues but previous experience will affect it. This isn't a good/bad thing it's just how the human mind works.

That might actually make a good experiment! I'll forward that along to my old behavioral science professor. I'm sure he'll find a way to devise an experiment from that. I'll be very interested to see the results.

[horsehead]

or leave it as it is as most people are enjoying the current comics

[Ryder]

or leave it as it is as most people are enjoying the current comics

That's the issue, current comics are actually good and the Relaunch comics look freaking awesome, there is no reason for marvel to revive the characters just as things are looking up for Ultimate Comics.

[VRaptorX]

or leave it as it is as most people are enjoying the current comics

Except the 60K that left the line since it's hayday. Yeah, of course the people that are still here like it. You aren't polling the ones that left.

Revivals always equal more money. I can guarantee if you do a Blackest Night type event, it will be the top seller. People LOVE when their favorites return. BN was top seller for a long time, because people LOVE revivals. You revive people, you will have people that left the line even before Ultimatum, come back in to the line.

[Plawsky]

Except the 60K that left the line since it's hayday.

The people that left since Ultimate's peak did not leave just because Ultimatum. They were leaving long before Ultimatum was ever mentioned. Example:

Ultimate X-Men 99 (so as to ignore the inherent bump from a #100 and last issue): #51; 44,354

Ultimate X #3: #35; 44,568

Over a year and a half later, the book actually gained sales, even in the declining market, despite being delayed. It wasn't until the recent 4th issue that sales dropped below Ult X-Men's end point (37,631), but it was still higher in the market (#41).

Correlation; not causation. You might as well say that it was BKV's run that killed Ultimate X-Men, because #55 was the last one in the top 10. After that, the whole UU declined in sales.

People didn't stick around even when everyone was alive; why would they come back? At most, you'd bring back the people that left because of Ultimatum, which actually wasn't very many in the non-Ultimates books.

[VRaptorX]

Yes. Revivals = money. Those people that left during BVK/Kirkman, will come back. Half those people that came back in Blackest Night, people reading it had no clue who they even were, but now they are fans of them.

And congrats...3 issues into the run you are just as bad in sales as the dying days of the series. That is such an accomplishment.

[Ryder]

you know that doing a blackest night type even would balantly look like a rip-off of blackest night.

[VRaptorX]

you know that doing a blackest night type even would balantly look like a rip-off of blackest night.

You can revive a lot of people without it being "rise, you are now a zombie with a magic ring."

[Balfro]

That's the issue, current comics are actually good and the Relaunch comics look freaking awesome, there is no reason for marvel to revive the characters just as things are looking up for Ultimate Comics.

I 99% agree. The other 1% is me REALLY agreeing.

[MarvelMaster616]

The people that left since Ultimate's peak did not leave just because Ultimatum. They were leaving long before Ultimatum was ever mentioned. Example:

Ultimate X-Men 99 (so as to ignore the inherent bump from a #100 and last issue): #51; 44,354

Ultimate X #3: #35; 44,568

Over a year and a half later, the book actually gained sales, even in the declining market, despite being delayed. It wasn't until the recent 4th issue that sales dropped below Ult X-Men's end point (37,631), but it was still higher in the market (#41).

Correlation; not causation. You might as well say that it was BKV's run that killed Ultimate X-Men, because #55 was the last one in the top 10. After that, the whole UU declined in sales.

People didn't stick around even when everyone was alive; why would they come back? At most, you'd bring back the people that left because of Ultimatum, which actually wasn't very many in the non-Ultimates books.

I still don't see how it can be considered a good thing when a book like Ultimate X that has two well-known creators (Loeb and Adams) barely sells more than the previous book it was supposed to improve after 99 issues. In three delayed issues, it'd already down to what took Ultimate X-men 99. That is not a trivial gap. If that's all Ultimate X can do, equate the twilight of the book it replaced after a mere three issues, I really don't see that as a positive. The fact they're already restarting at #1 is another indicator that Ultimate X didn't work in the long run.

You also mention readers leaving Ultimate. Do you really think those same readers will be brought back by a series that doesn't have any of their favorite characters from before and has half-hearted replacement characters instead? If that was Marvel's answer then I would have loved to know the question.

[Plawsky]

Revivals always equal more money.

Not true. Take Kitty Pryde in Uncanny X-Men for example:

#518: 68,572
#519: 67,043
#520: 65,758
#521: 67,049
#522 (Kitty's Return): 67,994
#523 (Second Coming Tie-in): 74,090

Kitty had been "dead" for two years. AT MOST, you could say her "revival" gained 945 sales, which relates to $3,000 extra, not including costs. Being generous, her return to the book gained Marvel a whopping $1,500, which is insignificant to their bottom line. And honestly, that spike could be attributed to the fluctuating sales of the book or the anticipation for SC as much as it could be because of Kitty.

The Second Coming tie-in, however, made the book gain 7,000 sales.

Similarly, the events of Necrosha X brought Doug Ramsay back to life, but the sales of New Mutants didn't really improve either.

More relevant to the Ultimate Universe, Beast's return did absolutely nothing for the sales of Ultimate X-Men.

So yes, there are times that revivals make for best selling books. Green Lantern, Batman, Captain America. OF COURSE some of the biggest characters in comics are going to make that kind of splash when they come back. But not the alternative versions of those characters. If Ultimate Wolverine comes back, so what? He's not the "real" Wolverine; people won't care as much.

Those people that left during BVK/Kirkman, will come back.

Why would they? "Oh hey, that book that I quit reading 6 years ago because I didn't like it anymore just got those same characters back; I should start reading it again!"

If someone had a reason to leave during the best years of the book, then obviously they don't care whether or not a character is dead. They're not going to start reading it again just because Wolverine comes back if they quit it while Wolverine was still alive.

And congrats...3 issues into the run you are just as bad in sales as the dying days of the series. That is such an accomplishment.

First, the series didn't die. It ended and was replaced (continued) with Ultimate X. They could have called the new series Ultimate X-Men, and it wouldn't have been any different.

Secondly, it stopped, or at least delayed, the downward slope that the book was already on. Ultimate X wasn't starting from scratch, it was taking over from a book that was already consistently declining for the past six years, and a year and a half later it's still in the same place. So yes, that is an accomplishment.

[Wolverine12]

So yes, there are times that revivals make for best selling books. Green Lantern, Batman, Captain America. OF COURSE some of the biggest characters in comics are going to make that kind of splash when they come back. But not the alternative versions of those characters. If Ultimate Wolverine comes back, so what? He's not the "real" Wolverine; people won't care as much.

Dude, you can't honestly be comparing killing off Doug Ramsey and Kitty and then reviving them to killing off Wolverine and then reviving him even if it's "not the real Wolverine." If marvel marketed the return of Wolverine like they are marketing the DoSM than it is highly likely that there would be a significant sales boost, even if it was only temporary justl like how the DoSM books will be a temporary boost. You say people won't care as much, first I didn't realize you had the ability to see into the future, secondly Wolverine is one of only a few characters that could do this. Sure if they wanted to bring back Angel or NC or Cyclops there could be almost no change but Wolverine moves books. It doesn't matter if it's 616, alternate or what ifs. He moves enough books to have 2 ongoing solos, a mini, in all the X-Men books minus X-Factor and in the two main avengers titles. I'm sorry Plawsky but saying nobody would care is just wrong.

[wyokid]

I still don't see how it can be considered a good thing when a book like Ultimate X that has two well-known creators (Loeb and Adams) barely sells more than the previous book it was supposed to improve after 99 issues. In three delayed issues, it'd already down to what took Ultimate X-men 99. That is not a trivial gap. If that's all Ultimate X can do, equate the twilight of the book it replaced after a mere three issues, I really don't see that as a positive. The fact they're already restarting at #1 is another indicator that Ultimate X didn't work in the long run.

You also mention readers leaving Ultimate. Do you really think those same readers will be brought back by a series that doesn't have any of their favorite characters from before and has half-hearted replacement characters instead? If that was Marvel's answer then I would have loved to know the question.

I have to confess...before this book I had never heard of Arthur Adams

[Wolverine12]

I have to confess...before this book I had never heard of Arthur Adams

Funny thing I hadn't either, but everyone seemed to be having nerdgasms so I got excited. He was a pretty big let down. I mean the art itself was pretty good, no where near the best in the UU but the delays made it not even close to worth it.