Ultimate Sales Discussions

[Agemoi]

Besides Ult Spidey....yeah. The rest of the line is considered not the real deal. the rest of the line has been inferior to 616 for years. Not many people outside of Ultimate fans even give a damn about this universe anymore. When you say Juggernaut, they think 616. When you say Mr Sinister, they think 616. When you say Storm, they think 616. When you say Daredevil, 616. When you say Fantastic 4, 616. Iron man, 616. Etc, etc.

This line (besides Spidey, Fury...and maybe Ultimate Cap) are not icons.

But.. an icon is an icon. Everybody everywhere knows captain america, spiderman, batman, wolverine, etc. They dont know the universe, but they're icons none the less. That's really silly splitting hairs when you get into stating that ultimate spiderman is inferior b/c he isn't in 616. They look exactly the same. And define real deal. That's a farce. 616 has seniority over ultimate sure, but all it did was take what ultimate was great at and bastardized it. And somehow became more popular again. The past 2 years of 616 have been big event after big event with no pay off and just lying to the consumer saying "the new status quo!"

Ultimate is an alternate universe inspired by 616. That's it. Do people not know that when Hugh Jackman pops his claws on screen that hes wolverine just b/c he's not in a comic?

At this point it seems like all we're REALLY doing here is splitting hairs. You either like Ultimate or you don't. It's a different/modern interpretation of a classic comics line. The universe has one hiccup and all people are doing is running around like chickens without heads. I just dont get it. 616 is fine, im a fan, but they dont take risks. Nothing changes. Human torch will be back in 2 years just like cap was. There will be some huge retcon that resets the status quo like spiderman these past few years ((and i really dug the direction he was going before it was all "poofMEPHISTOpoof")).

My advice to people about ultimate: Just give it time or give up on it. I say give it time b/c its still a young universe with potential. But the choice is yours. It gets frustrating reading all this bashing.

[VRaptorX]

That's not straws. I'm saying the non comic fans have no clue about the Ultimate line outside of Ultimate Spidey, Nick Fury and maybe Cap. Even though Ultimate has Wolverine, they don't know the difference and don't care about it. That does mean something.

That means it is expendable. Marvel can't cut 616 Hulk because he's the "real" hulk. But they can cut Ultimate Hulk. He's just an alt universe. It isn't the real universe so it isn't as important. Ultimate line can get cut by things that 616 can get away with. We don't follow the rules that 616 follows.

[Agemoi]

That's not straws. I'm saying the non comic fans have no clue about the Ultimate line outside of Ultimate Spidey, Nick Fury and maybe Cap. Even though Ultimate has Wolverine, they don't know the difference and don't care about it. That does mean something.

That means it is expendable. Marvel can't cut 616 Hulk because he's the "real" hulk. But they can cut Ultimate Hulk. He's just an alt universe. It isn't the real universe so it isn't as important. Ultimate line can get cut by things that 616 can get away with. We don't follow the rules that 616 follows.

I see what you're saying, but non comic fans are extremely negligible. They have absolutely nothing to do with this. We're on a forum about comics, and more specifically comic sales of a specific Marvel universe, so that makes non-comic fans negligible tenfold. Most people couldn't tell you which characters are Marvel or DC. People recognize big characters, it doesnt matter where they're from b/c they dont even know! They see webs they know spidey, claws = wolverine, ears and a cape = batman, red white and blue w/ shield = cap. Then they see the "Marvel" and "DC" logo and go "oh." Don't underestimate the layman's ignorance on this subject. It's shocking when you find out how little people actually know about these things, or even films based on comics.

But on the issue of beng expendable, sure. Alternate universes are always more expendable. ((And I know by "real" you mean original, b/c there is no real universe. Just different. Just saying b/c real and original really arent interchangeable)). Except ultimate: from a business point of view. 616 ran out of stories in the 90's and Marvel nearly went out of business. And after the huge success of ultimate in the early 2000's, marvel took a hint and applied some of those approaches to the 616 line. It's only a matter of time before they lose sight of where to go again. With the exception of a couple years i always felt ultimate had a more competent sense of direction, and its starting to look that way this year. 616 is just crawling. And Im shocked b/c its always been a love/love relationship for me between ultimate and 616.

I duno man, either dig it or dont i dont know what else i can say. Enjoy what you read and i try to enjoy what i read. But soon we'll all probably be reading these stories on our computers where the sales definitely account for nothing.

[Samorai_black]

Non-comic fans think that Marvel and DC is one big comic line.

When your talking about movies mostly Nick Fury most people would ask(if picking up 616) why is he not black.

To non-comic fans there is no 616 or Ultimate marvel or DC there are just comic books there is Spider-man, Wolverine, Batman and Superman. Before I started buying comics I thought this too even given the fact that In the movies and TV shows they say DC comics or Marvel Comics at some point.

And Im sure you would never had said the UU is not a "real" universe before it went down hill.

[Samorai_black]

I see what you're saying, but non comic fans are extremely negligible. They have absolutely nothing to do with this. We're on a forum about comics, and more specifically comic sales of a specific Marvel universe, so that makes non-comic fans negligible tenfold. Most people couldn't tell you which characters are Marvel or DC. People recognize big characters, it doesnt matter where they're from b/c they dont even know! They see webs they know spidey, claws = wolverine, ears and a cape = batman, red white and blue w/ shield = cap. Then they see the "Marvel" and "DC" logo and go "oh." Don't underestimate the layman's ignorance on this subject. It's shocking when you find out how little people actually know about these things, or even films based on comics.

But on the issue of beng expendable, sure. Alternate universes are always more expendable. ((And I know by "real" you mean original, b/c there is no real universe. Just different. Just saying b/c real and original really arent interchangeable)). Except ultimate: from a business point of view. 616 ran out of stories in the 90's and Marvel nearly went out of business. And after the huge success of ultimate in the early 2000's, marvel took a hint and applied some of those approaches to the 616 line. It's only a matter of time before they lose sight of where to go again. With the exception of a couple years i always felt ultimate had a more competent sense of direction, and its starting to look that way this year. 616 is just crawling. And Im shocked b/c its always been a love/love relationship for me between ultimate and 616.

I duno man, either dig it or dont i dont know what else i can say. Enjoy what you read and i try to enjoy what i read. But soon we'll all probably be reading these stories on our computers where the sales definitely account for nothing.

You beat me to it Sir.

[Plawsky]

When you say Juggernaut, they think 616. When you say Mr Sinister, they think 616. When you say Storm, they think 616. When you say Daredevil, 616. When you say Fantastic 4, 616. Iron man, 616. Etc, etc.

MOST people don't even think that. They think "I'm the Juggernaut bitch," "Who?," Halle Berry, Ben Affleck, bad movie, RDJ, etc, etc. Even more than that, a lot of people probably don't even know who some of those characters are.

That means it is expendable. Marvel can't cut 616 Hulk because he's the "real" hulk. But they can cut Ultimate Hulk. He's just an alt universe. It isn't the real universe so it isn't as important. Ultimate line can get cut by things that 616 can get away with. We don't follow the rules that 616 follows.

Sure, Marvel won't all out cancel Hulk, but they could easily consolidate the titles down to one book. But they're happy with keeping two separate Hulk books (which I know feature different characters) with sales in the 40s. And if they're okay with giving these characters several books (some of which aren't in 616 OR Ultimate), why not keep Ultimate as one of those? So with that in mind, let's look at the Ultimate solo books recently:

-Spider-man. Behind Amazing Spider-man, Ultimate Spider-man is the second highest selling book featuring Marvel's #1 character.
-Thor. Ultimate Thor was likewise the second best selling Thor book in December. And that includes a total of 7 miniseries featuring Thor as a title character.
-Captain America. As trend would suggest, Ultimate Cap was second behind Brubaker's main Cap book. It beat out 3 other miniseries last month.
-Though its a year old now, Armor Wars was 2nd to Invincible Iron Man when it was coming out.

So it would seem that putting Ultimate on the cover of a book still helps it sell. The current miniseries Captain America: Man out of Time is both in continuity and written by big time writer Mark Waid. But its debut was at 75 and it fell to 136. Roger Stern's Forever Allies was the same way. Cap and Thor have both had a lot of minis recently leading up to their big movie debuts, but their Ultimate series still sold significantly better.

Why, then, would they keep publishing those books? Sure, some of them are in 616, but a good deal of those barely even reference or affect continuity; and even more, a lot of readers don't even care about continuity like the people here on CBR do. I would say it's because Marvel cares more about telling good stories with their comics than sales. Sure, sales are a factor, I'm not disregarding that. But if they really wanted to maximize profits, they would be spending a lot less time on comics and focus their efforts on putting out more movies and TV shows.

[Agemoi]

You beat me to it Sir.

Lol sorry! Same thing happened to me today. But some back up never hurts

[Plawsky]

You beat me to it Sir.

And you both beat me.

[Agemoi]

And you both beat me.

Ha! Well you beat me to it earlier today so i guess that makes us even. At least between the few of us there's some ideas to let float around on the subject here.

I have high hopes for this year of ultimate comics. I would be complete if Ultimate X 4 and 5 released this year but i cant hold my breath. I do hope sales rise though, but its unlikely. The printed media is dying dangerously fast so we may need online subscriptions soon

[Samorai_black]

I have high hopes for this year of ultimate comics. I would be complete if Ultimate X 4 and 5 released this year but i cant hold my breath. I do hope sales rise though, but its unlikely. The printed media is dying dangerously fast so we may need online subscriptions soon

I would like to see a raise in sales so people can stop talking about "The End" of the UU or I could just stop looking at the boards.

What I really want more then anything even if its a bad story is Whats going on with Mutants one-shot not even a mini. Thats all I want to know, it could have been done so long ago. We know the basics but thats it I love Ultimate X but with its lateness something for mutants should have came out.

Its all I ask.

[Agemoi]

I would like to see a raise in sales so people can stop talking about "The End" of the UU or I could just stop looking at the boards.

What I really want more then anything even if its a bad story is Whats going on with Mutants one-shot not even a mini. Thats all I want to know, it could have been done so long ago. We know the basics but thats it I love Ultimate X but with its lateness something for mutants should have came out.

Its all I ask.

I know man Im with you there 100% That was my most anticipated series last year. I've read through issues 1-3 a few times to keep updated but im aching to see the story of the ultimate mutants. So far its damn enticing and well written. I just want it to become monthly with a reliable artist. Just something mutant related, i need that too!

[Wolverine12]

Only because it's really the best thing to compare to. As Ultimate X is essentially the continuation of Ultimate X-Men - or likely would be if it could get out of the first arc - then you look at how Ultimate X-men was trending at the end of its run, and where Ultimate X has carried that trend. I'm not necessarily comparing individual issues, just overall trends.

Well if it's just an overview than as far as Ultimate X is concerned it's basically a flat line. There is so little movement b/t the last few issues of Ult X-Men and Ult X, also with the most recent data it's skewing downwards. Granted there really aren't enough issues of Ultimate X to create a very accurate graph.

[Plawsky]

Well if it's just an overview than as far as Ultimate X is concerned it's basically a flat line. There is so little movement b/t the last few issues of Ult X-Men and Ult X, also with the most recent data it's skewing downwards. Granted there really aren't enough issues of Ultimate X to create a very accurate graph.

Yeah, it'll be a lot easier to analyze when there's several more issues. But unfortunately, all we have to go by is the 3 issues we do have. The only reason I even bring it up is when people claim that it's selling worse than UXM was when it was cancelled, which isn't true. However, I do think it will probably fall down below those levels once the issues start coming again. But for right now, UX's levels are still higher than the end of UXM.

[VRaptorX]

The real end of UXM was Apocalypse IMO. The stuff at the very very end was just a placeholder for Ultimatum. No one could have written a good arc out of....4 issues and knowing half your cast will die. Really it sucks to be that guy who wrote that. You just heard you are gonna write the X Men....but not for long.

And of course I would like to call Ult a real universe. I've said before if you wouldn't do it in 616, don't do it here. I've said that Ult should be considered a real universe with the same rules. I hate when Ult is considered just a place to test ideas before porting them to 616. I hate when they go, "let's just do whatever and see what works." Ult is a 10+ year line. At that point you should not do those sorts of things. Use "What If" for that type of crap. But, I don't think Marvel shares my views on this. They stopped doing Ultimate Universe only panels a while ago. I doubt they see this as a real universe to preserve after Ultimatum failed.

[Plawsky]

I doubt they see this as a real universe to preserve after Ultimatum failed.

Why wouldn't they? As I pointed out earlier, it's more popular than any of the non-flagship solo books that Marvel puts out. And really, these books outsell a vast majority of the titles that Marvel puts out (21, 22, 31, and 35 out of 113 books in December). Just because Marvel no longer gives them the attention they once did doesn't mean that they have forgotten about the Ultimate books.