The Hellboy Universe Publishing Order

[Middenway]

Mike Mignola hase said on his facebook account "HELLBOY IN HELL--the first four issues will come out monthly, starting (I think) next August." Previously it was thought that the first five issues would come out monthly, and we didn't have a release date other than 2012, so that's all been updated now. You should consider this date as an approximation only though.

[Bosco685]

1993
AUGUST 19 ― Hellboy Promo #1 - Hellboy 1

Sorry to ask a question as a "new guy," but what is this mentioned above? Is this the Comic Buyers's Guide insert that led into Seed of Destruction?

Thanks for the clarification.

[Kees_L]

Sorry to ask a question as a "new guy," but what is this mentioned above? Is this the Comic Buyers's Guide insert that led into Seed of Destruction?

Thanks for the clarification.

No, it would be the San Diego Comics #2 issue, dated August 1993, featuring the Hellboy VS Anubis story, as reprinted in the Hellboy: Seed of Destruction TPB.

The Comic Buyer's Guide insert came with a CBG #1070, dated May 1994, so effectively like 9 months later.

[Bosco685]

No, it would be the San Diego Comics #2 issue, dated August 1993, featuring the Hellboy VS Anubis story, as reprinted in the Hellboy: Seed of Destruction TPB.

The Comic Buyer's Guide insert came with a CBG #1070, dated May 1994, so effectively like 9 months later.

Thanks Kees for the clarification. I was new to San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 being listed as a promo appearance. Especially since it was a 4-page story versus that prototype appearance on the cover of Dime Press #4. But it makes sense since it was a handout promo.

What's interesting is in Hellboy Library HC #1, Mignola publishes a one-page letter stating the next two stories are the very first Hellboy published work - and it is SDCC #2 and the Comic Buyers' Guide insert. Supposedly that content pre-dated Seed of Destruction, but was then published later.

[Kees_L]

Thanks Kees for the clarification. I was new to San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 being listed as a promo appearance. Especially since it was a 4-page story versus that prototype appearance on the cover of Dime Press #4. But it makes sense since it was a handout promo.

Ehm, you mean it makes sense for you to being unaware of it, because it would have been a handout promo?
I'd say it would be likely for anybody to not being aware of either the promo due to not attending the San Diego Con, both as remaining unaware of the cover to the Italian magazine I would think? Let alone the Freedonia/Dark Horse 'Legend' trading cards set featuring a card of Hellboy? Or either the Next Men Hellboy appearance? Or the Hellboy with a coat plus weird writings on the wall poster?
Because they'd all have been published prior to the first issue of Hellboy: Seed Of Destruction coming out?

What's interesting is in Hellboy Library HC #1, Mignola publishes a one-page letter stating the next two stories are the very first Hellboy published work - and it is SDCC #2 and the Comic Buyers' Guide insert. Supposedly that content pre-dated Seed of Destruction, but was then published later.

No, published prior, as the TPB content would be reprinted material.
Eventhough any of the work on either any Hellboy stuff or specifically the Seed of Destruction-like material, might have been started on prior or next to creating any of the other Hellboy-containing stuff that would have gotten published before it, except expectedly the Dime Press cover since that appears to being like really early?
Or what about the coat - potentially becoming like a signature attribute for Hellboy but not within Seed that much yet? Eventhough the coat-poster would be preceding Seed #1, mr Mike describes the poster as for introducing the coat onto Hellboy, eventhough the coat would hardly seem to being apparent in Seed of Destruction all-too-predominantly. Whereas the Anubis-story does feature Hellboy-with coat foremostly if I'm not mistaken?
So it would appear that publication date or either release date doesn't necessarily equate to any of the actual material to be either preceding or following eachother up all that strictly it seems to me.
I believe mr Mike described repeatedly how he had been dreaming of being to be doing at least this one solid story before he'd die, like all of his own, at least as soon as after completing the art but also apparently much of the storytelling to Batman: Sanctum, a LotDK story which he'd been pretty pleased with for a result, a story which was published no earlier than november 1993.
Whereas the unlikely Hellboy appearance of Hellboy VS Nathan Never for the Dime Press cover would have been made in 1992 already - although published later than that, namely in March 1993. And there would be an even older Hellboy convention sketch done at the San Diego Con in 1991, as reprinted in the Art of Hellboy and also the Seed TPB if I'm not mistaken - a fun goofy drawing looking like Hellboy even less than the Dime Press one. A goofy drawing being to stick with mr Mike eversince 1991 somehow resulting in what would be to be the thing he'd be doing like all on his own - as soon as the 'Legend' deal at Dark Horse would prove to being a 'go' somewhere in 1993.
And even then stuff would still be to shift, since right up to the last couple of months nearing the deadline - Seed shifted from being a back-up story into being a lead story, spread over four issues.
And eversince the period between 1991 until Seed becoming a reality in 1994, some images and even stories concerning Hellboy or either Hellboy-like images, had been popping up or seeping through. And why not really? Since it would have been a thing for mr Mike to be working on like more or less, with knowing what Hellboy or either the Seed-story would be to become, or either not knowing such all that much.

I think of it as photos of yourself prior to getting a haircut or prior to going on some defining trip or moving to a whole new place: you would not yet really be the person you'd be becoming later on, but still it would be you in the photo - reality or factuality or photography can be funny that way, I suppose?

[Bosco685]

Good morning, Kees, and thanks again for the response and discussion on a favorite character. I'm not new to Hellboy - he's what got me back into comic collecting in 2007. Just new to posting on here. But I greatly appreciated your outline of some of the lesser-known and known appearances.

Whereas the unlikely Hellboy appearance of Hellboy VS Nathan Never for the Dime Press cover would have been made in 1992 already - although published later than that, namely in March 1993. And there would be an even older Hellboy convention sketch done at the San Diego Con in 1991, as reprinted in the Art of Hellboy and also the Seed TPB if I'm not mistaken - a fun goofy drawing looking like Hellboy even less than the Dime Press one.

When I returned back to comics to collect everything Hellboy I could get my hands on, Dime Press #4 was where a few "in the know" collectors pointed me for Hellboy's 1st appearance. It wasn't until a year later that I found out Mr. Mignola considers this a prototype appearance - not the real 1st full comic appearance in San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2. I even had the chance recently to email the Mignolas, and Christine Mignola responded back with a quick note what Mike Mignola's take is on Dime Press #4 - "Mike says that Dime Press #4 was probably the first prototype…he hadn't figured the character out yet and they did color him blue. Best, Christine Mignola."

On the 1991 drawing that contained "Hell Boy" on the belt buckle, that would be the Salt Lake City pamphlet - not San Diego Comic-Con. I never even bothered tracking that down, as we all realize it isn't even the Hellboy we know today.

No, published prior, as the TPB content would be reprinted material.?

Sorry, you misunderstood my point. Before I had purchased Hellboy Library Edition 1 HC - which of course contains reprint material of the Seed of Destruction mini-series - I had never known there was any lead-in from the Comic Buyers' Guide insert because even that publication date came out much later. But then in reading the Hellboy LE 1 writeup, Mignola mentions it was the second full Hellboy story he created after the 4-page San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 content. That was a surprise to me.

So it would appear that publication date or either release date doesn't necessarily equate to any of the actual material to be either preceding or following eachother up all that strictly it seems to me.

I would have to agree with you, as it does appear like many of the early stories seem to come from different mindsets as Mignola was publishing them. So he may have been pulling from different thoughts he had over the years where he would start the character out at.

Again, thanks for the kind discussion. It's great to be at a place where I can discuss Hellboy with others.

[Kees_L]

Again, thanks for the kind discussion. It's great to be at a place where I can discuss Hellboy with others.

You're welcome here, Bosco!

Sorry, you misunderstood my point. Before I had purchased Hellboy Library Edition 1 HC - which of course contains reprint material of the Seed of Destruction mini-series - I had never known there was any lead-in from the Comic Buyers' Guide insert because even that publication date came out much later. But then in reading the Hellboy LE 1 writeup, Mignola mentions it was the second full Hellboy story he created after the 4-page San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 content. That was a surprise to me.

Heh, apparently talking about publication dates confuses me, because I still feel lost on how you're meaning things concerning them .

Indeed I do believe mr. Mike discussed both the Dime Press Hellboy as well as the Salt Lake sketch (you corrected me correctly on that) as being prototype versions seeming not yet the real thing.

Apparently there will be both completist fans as well as just reading fans.
There is also the reality that for comics usually promotional teaser images or features get made in the leadup towards a comics release - so prior to the comic itself.
And there is the possibility that for publicity or outside media, or for fans at attending cons or events, comic creators or creatives may be sharing sneak peeks at stuff they'd be having their mind on somehow. Because a question like "What are you working on right now?" or "What would you like to be working on?" will be easily asked, although it may depend on their employment contracts whether creatives can be to answer without infringing their contract.

I would have to agree with you, as it does appear like many of the early stories seem to come from different mindsets as Mignola was publishing them. So he may have been pulling from different thoughts he had over the years where he would start the character out at.

That seems not quite how I'd be meaning things.

Because "mindset" seems to mean something which may prove variable or interchangeable, like perspectives to take, or like inspiration, or really anything at all, as each new day or every new hour may appear as a different mindset, although it might not always be impossible to take on a similar mindset from before.
see what I mean? Or try it again: see what I mean?
So it may sound strange, but mindsets aren't what makes stories or books that much, but more rather a tenacity or systematicness to overcome any all-too-varying mindsets, or for overcoming too restrictive ones for that matter. I'd think.

Usually creators may award different sketchbooks to different concepts, like as to be creating a special fixated mindset place to be working from - although perhaps never too fixated, because when you're working on stuff like conceptually, you might not always know for sure you'll be working on stuff in the most suitable way!

That's what I was trying to get at with the factual example of how things shifted for Seed of Destruction: work started out as it having to become a backup-feature spread over 4 issues but then it shifted into having to become a lead story, meaning a way bigger or more spacious story! This is known for a fact because of how a cover featured Arthur Adams's Monkeyman & O'Brien as taking the lead with Hellboy as to be forming the backup story.

There will be a difference between the designing or conceptual stage and the stage of finishing a story into a final form.
Because usually the outlook on how a final form should get to be, will not exist yet during any conceptual stage.
And there will also be a difference between how a creator's work gets launched into the world and the reality of things. Even to the creators themselves: upon releasing something there may not yet be a way of knowing how anything will get received.
I'd think.
So there may be a difference in how stuff gets released: a con sketch or just some illo for the media might be harder to be regarding as what it should mean to be than a full comic - or even publisher promo's, because a full comic or official promo's actually set out to mean what they'd be, if you get what I mean?

But this post will have become long enough as it is now.

[Bosco685]

Heh, apparently talking about publication dates confuses me, because I still feel lost on how you're meaning things concerning them.

It's most probably me, so let me take a stab at this explanation again. In the Hellboy Library Edition #1 HC, there is a section of the book where Mignola publishes a letter outlining the story of how he developed the character Hellboy. As part of the letter, he finishes up stating the next two stories were the first appearances of Hellboy in a story (beforehand, everything was concept art). The first story is the 4-page San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 content; the second is the 4-page insert included with Comic Buyer's Guide #1070.

So what may be implied by this publication is that he had the "Mike Mignola's Hellboy: World's Greatest Paranormal Investigator" CBG insert done before the publication of John Byrne's Next Men #21 and Seed of Destruction #1-4. He just didn't release it beforehand.

If you get the chance to read Hellboy Library Edition 1, check it out. I hope this explanation was clearer to avoid confusion. I'm sorry it didn't make sense before. It must be leftover Christmas eggnog or something.

That's what I was trying to get at with the factual example of how things shifted for Seed of Destruction: work started out as it having to become a backup-feature spread over 4 issues but then it shifted into having to become a lead story, meaning a way bigger or more spacious story! This is known for a fact because of how a cover featured Arthur Adams's Monkeyman & O'Brien as taking the lead with Hellboy as to be forming the backup story.

Kees, no offense meant at all. But where is this change in events factually captured that Seed of Destruction was going to be just a backup story, and Monkeyman & O'Brien the main story? Now that I had not caught before.

Facts, sir? I want answers!

Just kidding - but I do want to know where this is discussed by Mignola.

[Kees_L]

It's most probably me, so let me take a stab at this explanation again. In the Hellboy Library Edition #1 HC, there is a section of the book where Mignola publishes a letter outlining the story of how he developed the character Hellboy. As part of the letter, he finishes up stating the next two stories were the first appearances of Hellboy in a story (beforehand, everything was concept art). The first story is the 4-page San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 content; the second is the 4-page insert included with Comic Buyer's Guide #1070.

So what may be implied by this publication is that he had the "Mike Mignola's Hellboy: World's Greatest Paranormal Investigator" CBG insert done before the publication of John Byrne's Next Men #21 and Seed of Destruction #1-4. He just didn't release it beforehand.

What he's saying will regard how everything was released. What he does say, doesn't actually imply when any of it was made, but how it got released.

Before the insert was released (may 94), Seed #1 of 4 was released (mar 94), which was after releasing the Next Men appearance (dec 93), being after the Anubis story got released (aug 93).

But still any of that doesn't imply or concern in which order any of it got made or thought up.

The Anubis story got published before Seed, but maybe Seed was started on even before the Anubis story would have even started becoming a thing.

Publication dates / or actual release dates / or actual chronology concerning how stuff got thought up / will be 3 totally separate things.

They might coincide or they might not.

Kees, no offense meant at all. But where is this change in events factually captured that Seed of Destruction was going to be just a backup story, and Monkeyman & O'Brien the main story? Now that I had not caught before.

Facts, sir? I want answers!

Just kidding - but I do want to know where this is discussed by Mignola.

Whether it gets discussed by mr Mike I do not know, but like I said there is an image - like a preview cover or at least an officially released promo - where it is clearly suggested that Hellboy: Seed was initially gonna be a backup-story to Monkeyman & O'Brien, when in the actual issues this situation had gotten reversed.

I dunno where this image is visible, because I actually own all the books in every format, all the HC's both as all the floppy issues, except any promo's or the limited covers I will have missed - because I will have missed them.
Should I find the image I'll share it 'though, how's that?

And in general, for any of the promo stuff that I missed, reprints will suit me fine. Since the insert* for example would be just a xerox thing it's too easily falsified for me to be spending insane moneys on. Plus it won't be the point of promo's to be owning them 'en masse', they'd only be for stumbling upon 'em like a stroke of luck. Other than that any reprints would suffice, even for completists, in my view.

*the insert to a Diamond Previews issue, so not the Buyer's Guide one.
Which has me now thinking: what if that Diamond insert would be what had me lead to be believing Seed would have been intended as being a backup to Monkeyman - since that insert actually introduces a Hellboy backup feature to Monkeman which actually never happened - as mentioned by mr Mike in his 'The Art Of Hellboy' book. Oh, I always end up doubting myself. Sometimes it seems doubting would be to be my only friend...

Would any hardcore Old Time Hellboy buffs be knowing whether Seed of Destruction would ever have been intended as being a backup instead of a lead story at some point?

[Bosco685]

Whether it gets discussed by mr Mike I do not know, but like I said there is an image - like a preview cover or at least an officially released promo - where it is clearly suggested that Hellboy: Seed was initially gonna be a backup-story to Monkeyman & O'Brien, when in the actual issues this situation had gotten reversed.

I dunno where this image is visible, because I actually own all the books in every format, all the HC's both as all the floppy issues, except any promo's or the limited covers I will have missed - because I will have missed them.
Should I find the image I'll share it 'though, how's that?

Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing this.

I've been able to track down all most everything from the early appearances except for a few items. Even tracked down the Comic Buyer's Guide insert last year. Celebrate Diversity has never been one that I tracked down.

[Kees_L]

Bosco, to come back to your original point or question:

he finishes up stating the next two stories were the first appearances of Hellboy in a story (beforehand, everything was concept art). The first story is the 4-page San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2 content; the second is the 4-page insert included with Comic Buyer's Guide #1070.

So what may be implied by this publication is that he had the "Mike Mignola's Hellboy: World's Greatest Paranormal Investigator" CBG insert done before the publication of John Byrne's Next Men #21 and Seed of Destruction #1-4. He just didn't release it beforehand.

In my estimation it implies what got released first in a finished fashion. Like it implies how the Anubis-story, both as the Byrne/Mignola insert-story got released before Seed Of Destruction - in its entirety - was.

It does not imply that Seed Of Destruction wouldn't have been made into a finalized state, before any of those other bits were released.

Like it does not imply to be saying anything concerning which got made or finished first.

The appearance of Hellboy in John Byrne's the Next Men, was commented to being a thing belonging or happening within the Next Men, not Hellboy. Same for Hellboy appearing in "Ash" both as in Mike Allred's "Madman", or Powell's the Goon. Which would be why they didn't get collected into a crossover TPB, whereas others like Ghost appearing in Hellboy, or Batman/Hellboy/Starman appearing together, did get collected.
I believe the coinciding appearances of characters belonging to the initial "Legend" creators at Dark Horse (look it up) would have been an agreement made for the sake of supporting eachother's newly introduced creator-owned titles, which would have been the reason why the "Legend" thing was started in the first place: for introducing creator-owned titles.

I think a far more interesting aside than any crossovers would be the coat-poster, which mr Mike specifically mentions as being such.

Promotional pieces will get made upon releasing a comic through a publisher - like a thing from publishers more rather than creators I'd think. Promo stuff like the inserts or previews getting pre-published in what will be leading distributional advertising catalogues.

Although some stuff which the creators would be doing anyway, like perhaps the Convention leaflet thing - being the Anubis-story - getting done because the fans would be important and it would be a fun both as purposeful thing to do: launch a mini-story all complete and finished, months before Seed Of Destruction - as being the first real Hellboy title installment - would get to be released in full?

Or like how maybe the Buyer's Guide insert story would have been the result of a start-up thing done by Byrne and Mignola together? A start up next to or leading up to what would become Seed Of Destruction?

And a poster for getting hung up on.
Although the coat-poster turned out as having a special function: it introduces Hellboy as belonging in a coat. Which seems to me like a Seed Of Destruction afterthought: as if in Seed there might have surfaced a feeling of: 'now why did I let the coat get all teared up? More coat would have been way better to look at'? An afterthought getting released prior to Seed itself getting released! So the public seeing the poster may be aware how Hellboy belongs in a coat, eventhough in his (still upcoming) first full adventure the coat gets murdered or at least well torn-apart.
And interestingly enough, in the insert as well as the Anubis-story, the coat stays... Although they'd be just short tidbits instead of anything the size of Seed of Destruction.

But apparently, for getting a load of Seed Of Destruction in full, it pays off to also be taking into account the side bits, like the promo stuff, which will be why all of it got reprinted into the first Hellboy TPB. Plus some fun hindsight comments!

Would be my take.

Like I don't think it matters what came first, it doesn't matter even in regarding Hellboy's development in becoming a comic or comic character.
The different things were expectedly done, side-by-side, because it will be good to be using all the different channels or media upon launching a comic that never existed before, or either it will have been things that would have gotten done anyway, finding a way into release or publication of some sort - eventhough different audiences would be catered to by any of it - which would get solved in the end by the doing of a reprint.
Different formats or reprints of books is for catering to the readers. Done so that people or more people may acquaint themselves with the material. Or either for sharing more covetable stuff in the best possible format - which is still catering to readers, I'd think.

[Bosco685]

Hi Kees.

But apparently, for getting a load of Seed Of Destruction in full, it pays off to also be taking into account the side bits, like the promo stuff, which will be why all of it got reprinted into the first Hellboy TPB. Plus some fun hindsight comments!

Would be my take.

I like your take on things, as it makes sense. And when you read any summary from Mike Mignola on the origins of the character, to me it comes across as a work in progress that may have changed a few times before going live. In either Art of Hellboy or Hellboy Library Edition 1 (my things are in storage or I could check), Mignola shows what was a drawing which he states was the first sketch of Hellboy. But it was a team shot, and he was originally leaning toward a BPRD-type approach. Of course, we all realize Hellboy didn't kick off this way.

Why I concern myself with the order of publication is quite a few sellers on Ebay have had a field day pushing Dime Press #4 as a 1st Hellboy appearance when even the creator says otherwise. And most of those auctions will have an interview with Mignola I have never been able to track down in publication (other than in an Ebay listing, or someone copying the same Ebay listings as a reference - such as on the Hellboy Archive site).

"The Dime Press, if it's the Italian Fanzine that I'm thinking of, is the first drawing of the Hellboy that more or less exists today (stone hand, etc)."

Would you happen to know where this quote is even referenced from? Even his own book would go against this statement, as Mignola shows the team drawing and states it was the very first Hellboy sketch. And the sketch has him painted with red skin.

[Kees_L]

Would you happen to know where this quote is even referenced from? Even his own book would go against this statement, as Mignola shows the team drawing and states it was the very first Hellboy sketch. And the sketch has him painted with red skin.

Bosco, what I do know is that each Hellboy book or each Mignola work, in each of its proper formats, be it
the comic issues, or the limited Seed Of Destruction HC - which I obtained through eBay - through a nice and knowledgable seller I might add for the price of around $120 USD which I found agreeable,
or be it either of the TPB's in English or any of the dozens of other languages - being all ascertainably Dark Horse licensed books,
will be distinguished and joyous products, all of outstanding quality, being the fruit of the labour of a creator seeming well at home at his craft, but also a grand team of others all giving it their best, like fellow creatives and colorists (one catching a special limelight) both as editors or letterers or book designers and undoubtedly all kinds of others, all giving it their best.

Plus the way how some of these people - not least such as mr Mike or other creatives or Scot Allie - being to show a habit of sharing all kinds of afterthoughts and hindsight comments or other graceful 'glimpses into the kitchen', has me what I'd be for any of it: a happy reader or if I must say it: a "fan".

On your questions regarding the Dime Press cover or either what would appear to be an "eBay quote" (?!) didn't you kind of answer your own question?:

I even had the chance recently to email the Mignolas, and Christine Mignola responded back with a quick note what Mike Mignola's take is on Dime Press #4 - "Mike says that Dime Press #4 was probably the first prototype…he hadn't figured the character out yet and they did color him blue. Best, Christine Mignola."

I mean, what else would there be to say? Apparently you set out to be buying the first published Hellboy appearance - and you did.
By buying a copy of the Dime Press mag #4.
Congratulations.

I have one as well. Bought it for a song, around (the year) 2000 or something like that, through an Italian seller who sold Italian comic versions with an international interest, basically all for a song - like nothing over $15 - which made me decide to be buying what interest I had, being one copy of the Hellboy Dime Press, being the one I still own.

There will be a lot of different sellers online, at eBay, or anywhere. You have to be careful, like as to only be buying what you want or need plus at the right price. Not only regarding Hellboy or Mignola-books (can't recommend those enough) but really anything.

[Bosco685]

Plus the way how some of these people - not least such as mr Mike or other creatives or Scot Allie - being to show a habit of sharing all kinds of afterthoughts and hindsight comments or other graceful 'glimpses into the kitchen', has me what I'd be for any of it: a happy reader or if I must say it: a "fan".

And that's really what it should come down to in the end - being a fan of a character. But it is always interesting to read what motivated a creator in delivering a character or even changing directions over time.

On your questions regarding the Dime Press cover or either what would appear to be an "eBay quote" (?!) didn't you kind of answer your own question?:

I mean, what else would there be to say? Apparently you set out to be buying the first published Hellboy appearance - and you did.
By buying a copy of the Dime Press mag #4.
Congratulations.

No, I didn't really answer that question. In this case, like I mentioned before, I found out Dime Press #4 was a prototype of Hellboy - not the 1st appearance. But it is still great to own as a fan of Hellboy. So when I received the email from Mrs. Mignola confirming it was a prototype, and not a 1st appearance, it just goes to show how some sellers are twisting what Mignola says in an attempt to boost their sales. Nothing you can do about it though but spread the good word.

But as a fan, I'd want to own anything-Hellboy as all of it is worth the effort.

There will be a lot of different sellers online, at eBay, or anywhere. You have to be careful, like as to only be buying what you want or need plus at the right price. Not only regarding Hellboy or Mignola-books (can't recommend those enough) but really anything.

Boy, isn't this the truth. Fortunately, I've happened across many great sellers on Ebay that helped address my Copper Age (1980-1992) and Modern Age needs successfully.

[Middenway]

The release dates for Witchfinder: Volume 2 - Lost and Gone Forever and B.P.R.D. Hell on Earth: Volume 2 - Gods and Monsters have both been moved forward to 11 January 2012.