CBR: Where The Hell Am I - Jan 5, 2011

[GrandMoffGomez]

Moore's delivery was pretty harsh (isn't it always?), but he's got a point: if there's really as much talent in the industry as everyone thinks, why don't the Big Two let one of those creators have a go instead recycling 30-year-old concepts?

My take's that Marvel and DC don't want to take the risk of anything failing. As much as no one really wants to see prequels and sequels to Watchman, we all know they'd sell. The Miracleman comics bother me less because I'd like to get the chance to read the originals. So if Marvel reprints them, great. If they create an on-going new series, boo. But if they do make a new on-going series, it'd sell. At the end of the day that's all this is about.

There are plenty of talented people who won't ever get a chance to tell stories like Watchmen because no major publisher would want to take the risk. You'd have to be an established, money-drawing name just to get the chance, and as we've seen over the years just being popular doesn't always move a book, especially an indie book.

So like it or not, Moore's dead-on. He shouldn't have insulted the current pool of talent, but we shouldn't act like the current pool is pumping out tons of original concepts. Almost every book coming out of the Big Two is a retcon or rehash or re-envisioning of something older.

I can see a point in this as far as recycling old concepts, but if you say that, then people should stop doing modern stories of Batman, Superman, Spider-man...

Get the idea? Can't have it both ways. I don't see what's so wrong about re-visiting old stories and settings once in a while. Not everything has to be 100% original in order to be a fun read. This is not me saying that everything should always be recycled, but some stuff...yes.

In case anyone has forgotten, Captain America was recycled back in the 60's. He was dormant for almost 2 decades, then resurrected and brought back, and I'll say right now I'm damn glad he was recycled. Does anyone think that was a mistake? Was it unoriginal to bring Captain America back? Would there have been criticism of that move if it was made today?

[Raja-Man]

Hey Jason. Don't take Allan Moore words as an insult, but a challenge. Look at what he said. He's saying that he doesn't see the point of rehashing his work. And the scary thing is, as great as his work is, he's right.

How many times have we, and you, as fans complained of someone copying a storyline previously done for the same character. Name a book, any book, and I can almost guarantee that someone has written a storyline that was re-worked from a previous popular storyline.

And I think that's the point he's making. Sure you can do Superman or Spider-Man stories, or yes Hellblazer as well. But where is the next generation's "Watchman"? And by the next generation, I mean you, Jason. You and the rest of the current crop of writers and artists Moore was referring to, you can make your own Watchmen, your own Dark Knight Returns, your own Usagi Yojimbo or Cerebus or American Flagg, etc.

Moore threw down the gauntlet. Are you going to pick it up?

P.S. Love the column. Keep it up.

[Grievous]

Alan Moore doesn't understand simple business. DC wants to make a Watchmen sequel because its an easy sell. Thats why Hollywood is sequel crazy. Most of those sequels make a lot of money - and many are shit. Meanwhile excellent movies are overlooked by the masses.

There is no difference with comics. DC wants to milk an established franchise rather than try to build up a new property in a shrinking industry. It has nothing to do with a lack of talent and everything to do with the easy sell of a sequel.

So I'm going to have to agree with Jason Aaron. Fuck Alan Moore.

[Mladen]

Its clear that even in the early stages of his career that Alan Moore was a writer who had bought into his own hype. I suppose if you had enough people telling you, you might start to believe, "Why yes, I suppose I AM some kind of literary genius".

What makes his comments all the more annoying is that he seems to fancy himself a serious writer of prose and theater who sometimes lowers himself to dabble in the childish medium of comic books, when in fact its clearly the other way around. He's had the advantage of working in a small medium during a low-ebb period in comic publishing history when well-written comics were rare, the marketplace wasn't saturated with content, they didn't have to contend with the internet, the distribution model was more open, and good work could shine and grow.

He's either arrogant enough to think that he's the best working writer out there, or he's ignorant to the realities of today's market (yes, they're realities that Marvel and DC failed to foresee, and are in part to blame for, but we'll leave that for later). I seem to recall that Moore has mentioned he doesn't use the Internet or computers, in which case I'm going to assume he's just a little bit naive to the changes in today's market and consumer.

Anyway, I have a challenge to Moore: Release a work under a pseudonym. For fun, make it a 12 issue mini series with an original story, original characters and a clear ending. Get Marvel or DC to put it out, market the heck out of it.
If the fault is with today's crop of terrible terrible writers (they're not Alan Moore after all), and given your amazing literary talents (at least higher than all of the bottom-flight talent you mentioned), you'll have a breakout hit on your hands, right? One that reaches the profitability of Watchmen?
If not, ask why not?

[mastadge]

He should really start figuring out whether he's a pro or a fan because he seems utterly confused.

The two are mutually exclusive? Once you become one you have to stop being the other?

if there's really as much talent in the industry as everyone thinks, why don't the Big Two let one of those creators have a go instead recycling 30-year-old concepts?

Because the industry has changed, and the Big 2 are so desperate trying to figure out how to keep their heads above water that it doesn't make much business sense to push something original, especially if it doesn't sell well out of the gate. There are very few people in the business who can sell books on the strength of their names alone. Millar, Ellis, etc. This is not helped by the fact that, regardless of what the vocal minority of fans on the internet claim they want, the established brand-name teams and characters pretty consistently outsell things that are new and different, regardless of the talent on board. Even further, Moore (and many others) seem to conflate great with iconic. There's plenty of great work out there, both from the Big Two's stable of writers as well as from the indies. Kim Deitch, Guarnido and Canales, a whole bunch of creators creating great work. But greatness doesn't mean a work will be iconic. Jimmy Corrigan will most likely never enter the popular cultural consciousness, or even the comics cultural consciousness, the way Watchmen or V have, but that's not a measure of its worth or artistic value.

[littlenomad]

Who cares what the psychotic burnout Moore has got to say about anything. To off handedly dismiss work you've never seen is the pinnacle of arrogance and close-minded stupidity.

Too DC I say ignore Alan Moore and do what you want with Watchmen; sequals, prequals, whatever, just do it. If it doesn't work fine, at least you gave it a shot and move on.

Same thing goes for Marvel with Marvelman just do it.

Amen, brother.

[Mladen]

Jimmy Corrigan will most likely never enter the popular cultural consciousness, or even the comics cultural consciousness, the way Watchmen or V have, but that's not a measure of its worth or artistic value.

Just on that very topic, I recently caught a program of "First Tuesday Book Club" which is right now the premier Australian television program for reviewing literature and books (usually of the high-end intellectual kind). Anyway, Jimmy Corrigan came up and everyone on the show had nothing but high praise for it, one of the panelists mentioned it was one of her favourite novels (not graphic novels, novels). I suspect its probably more well-read outside of the comics community, which is unusual but probably true due to Ware's work for the New Yorker etc.

I don't think V ever entered the popular cultural consciousness? It didn't until the film version came out anyway. Outside of comics culture it was fairly unknown. Of all of the comics which have yet to be adapted to film or tv, in my experience Gaiman's 'Sandman' is easily the one which is best known to people outside of comics.

[uthor]

My favorite part of Moore's quote is "could they not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators' to come up with an idea of their own?" while holding up Watchmen, a comic that is almost entirely about repackaging old ideas in a new way (especially the characters), as a gold standard.

[SmoManCometh]

Moore is a douchebag, how any of you people can defend him is just f'n amazing. He created a series for a company and bitches because he doesn't own it himself. He talks crap about geoff johns usage of blackest night and how he created the lantern mythos, yet he was doing the same thing! Your writing for a seralized medium, that is what happens!

[SmoManCometh]

Hey Jason. Don't take Allan Moore words as an insult, but a challenge. Look at what he said. He's saying that he doesn't see the point of rehashing his work. And the scary thing is, as great as his work is, he's right.

How many times have we, and you, as fans complained of someone copying a storyline previously done for the same character. Name a book, any book, and I can almost guarantee that someone has written a storyline that was re-worked from a previous popular storyline.

And I think that's the point he's making. Sure you can do Superman or Spider-Man stories, or yes Hellblazer as well. But where is the next generation's "Watchman"? And by the next generation, I mean you, Jason. You and the rest of the current crop of writers and artists Moore was referring to, you can make your own Watchmen, your own Dark Knight Returns, your own Usagi Yojimbo or Cerebus or American Flagg, etc.

Moore threw down the gauntlet. Are you going to pick it up?


P.S. Love the column. Keep it up.

There are series like that. Casanova, walking dead, powers, scalped, maybe even morning glories will be revered after some time has passed.

[Vince Hernandez]

As an EIC of a comic book publisher that only publishes original properties, I fully understand why Marvel and DC don't take more risks on original IP's. The public may say they want original works outside of the mainstream list, but the sales don't support them.

[ColonelLee]

A wrestler used to say "you gotta beat the man to meet the man" ..

Jason hasn't beaten the man. While he has done good work .. it hasn't risen to the level of Watchmen yet.

Anyhow, Alan Moore is an idol of Jason's who has let him down .. so Jason say "fuck him" .. second stage Kubler Ross .. denial, then anger ..

[coy_dog0]

It doesn't matter if Watchmen is all about "repacking old ideas". He did it better than anyone else, and that's why they continue to sell copies of this ONE comic, 25 years later.

Leave it alone. By not producing something new, and not leaving Alan Moore's creation alone, and MOVING ON, DC (and Marvel, with Marvelman) are providing proof to Moore's claim that they don't have anyone as talented as he is (whether its true or not.) Jason Aaron--decent writer, but your post has made me sour to YOU, and your comics. Moore's made me laugh.

So, DC and Marvel lose. I'm loyal to creators, not corporations.

[orsonrandal]

This all smacks of high school. Someone up there left a comment to the affect of 'why would Aaron choose to be so put off by someone who is admittedly ignorant of what he's criticizing?' Great point. Moore's out of touch. So what.

Be confident in what you're writing and let it be. Aaron just made himself look childish; this is the stuff of Jerry Springer.

Not to mention that nothing Aaron has written is nearly as original, nor inspired as any one title of Moore's that Aaron mentioned reading as a kid.

And I wonder if Aaron has approached Moore's attitude with the least bit of empathy? How would he feel if some studio desk jockeys bastardized 'Scalped?'

I love Moore's work, but his attitude and example suck. So what. Eddie Vedder said it best, "if you don't like something don't you do it too." Aaron is just perpetuating the same negativity with his editorial. Who's the bigger child?

[Pyramid]

I'm not jumping on this hate bandwagon.

It's always important to remember context. Moore made his comment in regards to DC's decision to write prequels and sequels to Watchmen. Moore even states, "They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren't." Right there in his last words he says it would be insulting to think there wasn't any top flight talent out there. He thinks there is, but DC is being lazy by choosing to not venture into the creative unknown, they're milking Watchmen for all they're worth.

As for the prequel and sequel to Watchmen, they don't interest me in the slightest.

Everyone else, enjoy the Kool Aid.