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  1. #31
    undignified douchebag stevensanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darknessatnoon View Post
    On the other hand, I recently saw his movie where he acted like this was the first time anyone had ever listened to the stoned ravings of a 70s burnout.
    Was that the one where he talked to himself (literally) in a theater and talked about how comics are valid as an artform because they influence popular culture or something?
    "The only person who cares about your opinion is your mother." - Gore Vidal

  2. #32
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    I must agree with Alan Moore.
    Its just crass commercialism, its just like Hollywood at the moment with its constant sequels and remakes - going with a known property rather than coming up with something new.
    Its creatively empty, going back over something because its already known and understood rather than putting in the effort on something else.
    Shouldn't Mr. Aron understand Moores sensitivity about his work? If he's had original work that is. Why does both DC and Marvel need to reach back and use Moores' reputation to create interest if there is 'top flight talent' capable of creating original works?

    And the funny thing is Moore was going to do a prequel series back in the '80s! But then he quit because (i) DC was keeping it in print to defer handing over copyright; (ii) calling its merchandise which Moore and Gibbons are supposed to own 'marketing' to get out of paying them; (iii) planning at the time to introduce ratings and mature content labels.
    Last edited by LamontCranston; 01-05-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevensanders View Post
    Was that the one where he talked to himself (literally) in a theater and talked about how comics are valid as an artform because they influence popular culture or something?
    I don't know where he was. I watched for what seemed like forever until he busted out a Tarot deck and began to explain it. Then I flipped it off. The art used in the article might have been the DVD cover to what I saw.

  4. #34
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    Default re: Alan Moore

    I don't understand Mr Aaron's point. He's upset because Alan Moore is disappointed that Marvel & DC are recycling and producing sequels & prequels to his old work? Or is it because Moore gave a supposed insult to today's current comics creators when he was really encouraging them to out-do him with their own creations? Does Mr Aaron not understand sarcasm?

    The hatred displayed by Mr Aaron in his column does not seem justified at all. There was nothing quoted by Alan Moore that personally mentioned him. He wasn't putting down the medium. His comments brings to mind some advice that Stan Lee gave Mark Millar. "Why are you playing with my creations? Why not create your own?" (Millar related this at a NY Wizard-Con.) Mr Moore just gave a much harsher version of that same idea.

    So what is Jason Aaron's point? And why is he so pissed? You never make good decisions when you're angry & perhaps he can put his thoughts together in a more cohesive manner. He probably has good reasons to be critical. They just don't come across well in this column.

  5. #35
    The Weak skinshark's Avatar
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    Talking Man up, hombre!

    Another way of looking at this is Moore's basically calling out the company for not fostering their "top-flight" talent but instead throwing them a useless bone like Watchmen that will never get made.

    I agree with the crux of Moore's comment.

    If comic publishers wanted more "revolutionary work" they'd use that talent wisely instead of squandering it on sequels. You might want to consider the possibility that he's got a lot more respect for creators than he does for the companies that run them into the ground.

    Sad day when two of my favorite creators don't see eye to eye.

    Be a man, call him, fly over and hug it out!
    =s=

  6. #36

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    I think that quote, taken within the context of the interview (which was conversational and essentially written down verbatim), isn't nearly as offensive as Mr. Aaron deems it.

    Moore's clearly being abrasive and sarcastic (which admittedly never comes across too clearly when written down!) but his vitriol is pointed squarely at the editorial/publishing side of the industry rather than the creators. In fact, I'm surprised that any creator would take this to heart considering the context of what he's saying. Later on in the interview, he clarifies this somewhat by saying he doesn't read modern DC/Marvel stuff (and he does still read some comics, I've seen a pull quote from him on the backs of a couple of new books over the years).

    He's quite right in wondering why DC are putting so much money, time and effort into, essentially,trying to exploit his name (even buying WildStorm to get his ABC stuff!) when they have all these new 'top-tier' creators they purport to be so proud of who are ready to work on Watchmen spin-offs, that they could instead encourage into creating works that are as popular as Watchmen was 25 years ago. I'm surprised you're siding against him on this considering what DC are currently doing to Vertigo. This is a guy who's fought a hell of a lot for creator rights over the years and has the right to be angry at an organization that continues to find new ways to aggravate and exploit his name, resulting in a humiliating court case that called his integrity into question (where were the DC lawyers to help him out there?)

    If the Big Two were as passionate about creating new/exciting material from fresh creators (whether it's superheroes or not) as they are about trying to make more money out of Moore's name, it'd be much healthier for the industry as a whole. Instead, they're regurgitating storylines, promoting hollow multi-title events, and castrating Vertigo in favour of further homogenization of their core superhero lines.

    Regardless, my copies of Scalped will continue to sit happily next to my copy of From Hell

  7. #37
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    Maybe Moore just think DC and Marvel is to hung up in old works then doing anything really new. Really can anyone tell me a really ground breaking story come from the main lines of the big two in the past 15 years.

  8. #38
    New Member KNuff's Avatar
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    We all get where Alan Moore is coming from but it was unfair for him to say that there are NO great, if not good, comic creators nowadays.

    Some of you say he is childish or is over-reacting, but I've always thought Jason was an in-your-face, no-bullshit kinda guy who sure doesn't sugar coat his words. He may have not been singled out by Moore, but I think more of Jason now for speaking up against Moore's sweeping generalization towards the industry.

    And on originality, it is admirable for someone to create something out of nothing, but there is merit in someone being able to write good stories about a character that they did not create.

    In proving Moore wrong, Scalped is doing just that.

    I know it's kind of a New Year opener for him but I'm just wondering why Jason brought this up again just now since he was reacting to Moore's statements months ago. Maybe he was fixing his comic book shelves and stumbled upon his old Alan Moore comics?
    Last edited by KNuff; 01-05-2011 at 05:14 PM. Reason: grammar

  9. #39
    Napoleon of Crime Professor Moriarty's Avatar
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    maybe Alan Moore should just break off all contact with the outside world and become a hermit.

    i'm on board with you on this one Jason.

  10. #40

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    I think there are plenty of comics as good, if not better than Watchmen. Most of them haven't quite captured the zeitgeist and become a phenomenon like some of the 80s stuff unfortunately, and that's the problem. Maybe that's got more to do with segregating comics into specialist stores and also equating superhero movies with comic-book movies (these movies should be theoretically helping to bring in new readers), which isn't quite accurate. Road to Perdition, Scott Pilgrim, Ghost World, Oldboy, A History of Violence, American Splendor - all based on comics (quite successfully in my opinion) and all offering something different.

    Strange that the Scott Pilgrim movie massively helped the sales of that book (even though it might not have lit the box office on fire) yet Iron Man doesn't seem to have benefitted too much from the film's success.

    I've gone off-topic, sorry!

    But anyway, I think stuff like Hellboy, Scalped, Criminal, Casanova, Scott Pilgrim, the Parker books by Darwyn Cooke, All-Star Superman etc. are all as good as a lot of Moore's work and can justifiably be held up as great examples of modern comics. And these creators are often at their best when given the creative freedom (and opportunity!) to do what they want. Marvel/DC should trust these creators' instincts and encourage them to do more of this kind of stuff. Rather than, you know, Nite Owl/Silk Spectre Team Up No. 7 or Rorschach: Origins. That's what Moore is getting at in his rant!

  11. #41

    Default F Yeah!!!!

    I LOVE Jason Aaron already, as his writing is so damn sexy. Freakin' love his Punisher books as well as Scalped.

    That being said, I was the same way, LOVED Alan Moore for the longest time. Absolutely adored his Swamp Thing run, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, his Wildcats run was also fantastic.... but I got so tired of hearing how he refuses to watch films based on his works now.

    I understand why he was so pissed with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, I really do. That movie sucked much ass. And though I didn't think it sucked, I get why he didn't care for From Hell all that much....but to me, it's a shame he didn't give V for Vendetta a chance. Not as inspired as the comic series it's based on, but I thought it was a fun film.

    But then...WATCHMEN. To me, Watchmen was an out of the park adaptation. Some people out there treat the source material like scripture, and if one single iota of story is at all different in the film, they automatically say "THIS SUCKS!". I can't stand people that are so close-minded. It's fine if you have a legitimate reason for not liking something, but to decide it sucks just because it's not exactly the same from what you know...to say it sucks because it's different and for no other reason.... that's ignorance. Like I said, if you have a legitimate reason, cool....like G.I. Joe for instance. Terrible film. They changed so much about everything, and not for the better. The source material was infinitely better than the movie. But with Watchmen...people griped because the ending is slightly different...but I don't give a shit as to who I piss off in saying this....the film ending WAS BETTER THAN THE BOOK! It made more sense, it tied the story together better, and it helped keep the story grounded more towards realism than towards way out there fantasy.

    Alan Moore is an ignorant man, on one hand pretty much saying that modern creators can't be good, then admitting he doesn't read comics anymore. WTF? Ignorant, bitter, hateful old man. When you die, people will miss your talent much more than they will ever miss you.

    I'm with Jason Aaron. Fuck Alan Moore.

  12. #42
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    Aaron just made a big ass of himself.

    He should really start figuring out whether he's a pro or a fan because he seems utterly confused. He starts stating he's a fan, then he takes offense at a sentence he thinks is aimed at creators. So you would suppose Aaron was saying "I was a fan, I became a creator, I take offense at Moore's comment" But no, Aaron states again "As a fan, I'd just rather not support someone who so blatantly insults me and my friends."

    I guess writing that column while you've had too much drinking over the holidays wasn't the best move he's made.

    Aaron hasn't written yet anything worth celebrating. In spite of a number of tries, I've not managed to find Scalped entertaining, maybe the handful of issues I've tried were the wrong ones. I've seen nothing beyond crime writing that I've seen several times already. Last time I tried was last month: The loser that comes out as a hero. Taxi Driver is a classic, all right but a 34 year old idea isn't fresh.

    Moore's work trancends genres, it breaks molds. Aaron is straight conventional. I just read Ultimate Captain America out of interest in Captain America. I don't know if it's the Ultimate version or Aaron but that story sounds already like the Millar Ultimates-Red Skull story to me.

    So maybe Aaron was too much of a fan indeed. Maybe being a fan is an immature attitude that one should grow out of. Here's to hoping Aaron has finally killed the Moore father figure and start producing some real shit.

  13. #43
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    Moore's delivery was pretty harsh (isn't it always?), but he's got a point: if there's really as much talent in the industry as everyone thinks, why don't the Big Two let one of those creators have a go instead recycling 30-year-old concepts?

    My take's that Marvel and DC don't want to take the risk of anything failing. As much as no one really wants to see prequels and sequels to Watchman, we all know they'd sell. The Miracleman comics bother me less because I'd like to get the chance to read the originals. So if Marvel reprints them, great. If they create an on-going new series, boo. But if they do make a new on-going series, it'd sell. At the end of the day that's all this is about.

    There are plenty of talented people who won't ever get a chance to tell stories like Watchmen because no major publisher would want to take the risk. You'd have to be an established, money-drawing name just to get the chance, and as we've seen over the years just being popular doesn't always move a book, especially an indie book.

    So like it or not, Moore's dead-on. He shouldn't have insulted the current pool of talent, but we shouldn't act like the current pool is pumping out tons of original concepts. Almost every book coming out of the Big Two is a retcon or rehash or re-envisioning of something older.

  14. #44

    Default And another thing...

    For Alan Moore to imply that modern day creators want to work on his characters because they can't do anything original themselves?!? WTF, man? Are you so fucking ignorant to think that just because a creator had an interest in working on Watchmen creators that it must mean they have no original ideas on their own? Are you really so ignorant as to make that broad of a generalization?

    What about you Alan Moore? Was Swamp Thing your original creation, you ignorant fuck? Was Superman? Was Supreme? Wildcats? What's the fucking difference? Some people out there are so inspired that they wanted to pay some type of homage to you and play in the sandbox you created, and rather than be gracious and say "Thanks, but no thanks", you insult them, the very people you helped inspire to become writers to begin with.

    Wow. What a piece of shit.

  15. #45
    Member chrisgiff's Avatar
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    not defending Moore, but can people stop saying he had no original ideas?

    he may have used previously created characters or made work inspired by others' work, but his takes WERE ORIGINAL IDEAS-If they weren't, we wouldn't still give a fuck about Watchmen, et al. now.

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