Tom Brevoort on Superman

[Fate's Faith]

I don't even know what this means. Could you elaborate?

Referring to the state of the marriage in Up, Up and Away was portrayed as perfect for both but when his powers returned, that was no longer enough for Clark. If during this time when this was all Clark was capable of and Lois got a great promotion in California in which she took, I would say the same. The marriage wasn't enough for her. But it was Clark that got the 'promotion' and changed the state of the marriage back to where it was before.

So does Clark. He has to sacrifice his normal life in pursuit of using his powers in the service of humanity. He has to give up that free time with Lois and anyone else, to do what he does.

What I'm saying is you can't have a marriage with more than two people. We have Clark, Lois and the whole world. I'm not saying marriage is bad but its one sided against Lois. He's not giving up a normal life because that is his normal life. Its Lois that is giving up a normal life because she can't participate in his. Its like if he was also married to Maxima (a name I just pulled from memory). Would she really be in a different place? He can't spend time with her because he has to attend to Maxima. But he can always come home and tell her about his day with Maxima. She could be jealous of Maxima but is that really fair when Maxima is his wife? See what I'm getting at? Say the rest of the world is just one person and throw them into Lois and Clark's marriage. Is Lois as married to her job as her husband is to his? Again, not saying the marriage was terrible. It just wasn't handled that realistically to me so I didn't have a problem with it going away.

[Mat001]

Referring to the state of the marriage in Up, Up and Away was portrayed as perfect for both but when his powers returned, that was no longer enough for Clark. If during this time when this was all Clark was capable of and Lois got a great promotion in California in which she took, I would say the same. The marriage wasn't enough for her. But it was Clark that got the 'promotion' and changed the state of the marriage back to where it was before.

How was the marriage not enough for her? You don't make sense.

What I'm saying is you can't have a marriage with more than two people.

Bigamists would disagree.

We have Clark, Lois and the whole world.

No, there are two people. Clark and Lois. The world isn't part of the marriage. It was just their jobs. Nothing more.

I'm not saying marriage is bad but its one sided against Lois. He's not giving up a normal life because that is his normal life. Its Lois that is giving up a normal life because she can't participate in his.

Two things.

1. Why does she have to participate in his world? Where is it mandatory that she has to participate in this? I don't see spouses joining the police force, so that they can be police partners. Or joining the military to be in the same unit. Not every spouse wants something to do with every aspect of their significant other's world. Be it on a grand scale or a small scale. If the guy is into cos play and comics, while the girl isn't into it, there is nothing that says that she has to participate in his world. Or vice versa.

2. She still has contributed to his world. She was doing it before they got married. Clark fought Intergang with both his powers and his words. Lois fought with her words and when necessary, with a weapon. Clark battled Zod and his Kryptonian army, while Lois went up against her father who was inciting a war. Lois got the story that took down Lex Luthor and Clark went out and brought him in. And then they did their own things. Clark was going up against Ruin and Magog, while Lois was covering the military action in Umec. They were separated half a world away. Even if he wasn't Superman, as reporters, that is the kind of life they lead.

Its like if he was also married to Maxima (a name I just pulled from memory). Would she really be in a different place? He can't spend time with her because he has to attend to Maxima. But he can always come home and tell her about his day with Maxima. She could be jealous of Maxima but is that really fair when Maxima is his wife? See what I'm getting at? Say the rest of the world is just one person and throw them into Lois and Clark's marriage. Is Lois as married to her job as her husband is to his? Again, not saying the marriage was terrible. It just wasn't handled that realistically to me so I didn't have a problem with it going away.

It's no different from when one person is a cop, a federal agent, a doctor or whatever. It doesn't matter if one of the spouses is a stay at home and the other is the bread winner. A marriage is always going to be lopsided in some way. That's how marriage is. And the fact is in this marriage, they both had stuff that they did together and apart.

[Fate's Faith]

It's no different from when one person is a cop, a federal agent, a doctor or whatever. It doesn't matter if one of the spouses is a stay at home and the other is the bread winner. A marriage is always going to be lopsided in some way. That's how marriage is. And the fact is in this marriage, they both had stuff that they did together and apart.

I'll try to make better sense I do see a difference between being Superman and being a cop, etc. All those professions get days off. Time specifically designed to get a break from the job. That doesn't exist for Superman. How sucessful was any of those marriages be if the cop, agent, etc was always on duty? And more importantly, if they are the only cop, doctor, etc? Like I've said before, marriage isn't going to always be equal between the two but in Lois and Clark's case its always lopsided toward the job of Superman. At no point will anything Lois needs in her marriage will outweight that. Even a quite evening at home together will be dependent on nothing needing his attention. And its not just an evening. Its overnight, breakfast, mid-morning, lunch, afternoon, dinner, evening... any time she has to spend with her husband will give way to what he may have to do. She has no foundation to build her life on because its always shifting according to what the world needs. Not her needs. Not even his. I'd hate to think how any children they might have had would be affected unless they do what they did with Lois, just have them smile happily that dad is home for three seconds and continue on like they have the best life ever.

[NotSuper]

While I am in favor of Superman being single again, at the same time I don't think his time married to Lois prior to the reboot will nor should be seen as just a footnote. That makes it sound gimmicky, and it wasn't. The idea may have started that way, but it ended up being a natural and lasting progression of the Lois and Clark love story. The reboot shouldn't have any negative affects on its legacy, at least in my mind. To me the marriage will be more comparable to the MOS origin in terms of legacy, as opposed to Electric Superman or whatnot. Significant, lasting aspects to the mythos, that after a substantial amount of publication time, ended in favor of different directions.

Maybe, but I do think it only lasted as long as it did because DC didn't want to divorce Superman or kill off Lois. It was like they ran out of ideas (not that the ideas they had used before with the marriage were particular interesting or good ones) and from there the marriage just felt like an albatross or something that was "there" but wasn't really important. I don't see the reboot making the idea of a married Superman being bad, but I do think it will make the idea seem less plausible through the stories told with this Superman.

[Mat001]

I'll try to make better sense I do see a difference between being Superman and being a cop, etc. All those professions get days off. Time specifically designed to get a break from the job. That doesn't exist for Superman.

Oh, it does exist for Clark. That was what happened on their honeymoon. If he felt it was important enough to take a vacation like that, he could have others fill in for him in Metropolis. And as it is, vacation aside, he does take a break. He cannot be everywhere at once. He cannot do everything. That's why he has maintained the Clark Kent identity. Why when his parents were alive, they would go to Smallville. Hell, he gathered his family and took them to another world for a day off in Superman Annual #13 and he and Jonathan took time off in Action Comics #847. Granted in that one, he had to go to work, but Jonathan thought no less of him for doing so.

How sucessful was any of those marriages be if the cop, agent, etc was always on duty?

Even when officially off duty, there are times when at least two thirds of those cops wind up either working security or happen to be in the right place at the right time, to handle a crime. FBI agents are gone for days at a time, when they have to handle a case that requires a lot of their attention. Doctors are seldomly completely off duty. A soldier will be gone off on tour for a year, with very little opportunity for leave.

And more importantly, if they are the only cop, doctor, etc?

Ah, but Clark isn't the only superhero in the world. There were plenty out there who could fill in for him if he had to take time off and they did.

Like I've said before, marriage isn't going to always be equal between the two but in Lois and Clark's case its always lopsided toward the job of Superman. At no point will anything Lois needs in her marriage will outweight that. Even a quite evening at home together will be dependent on nothing needing his attention. And its not just an evening. Its overnight, breakfast, mid-morning, lunch, afternoon, dinner, evening... any time she has to spend with her husband will give way to what he may have to do. She has no foundation to build her life on because its always shifting according to what the world needs. Not her needs. Not even his.

And she accepted that. That was shown time and again. Hell, there were times when they both had to leave to cover a story even when they weren't together. She would have to go because of her job as a reporter to get the facts out there and discover the truth. To have the front page headline. She was always on the go. Clark was no different in that regard. The only time she had trouble with that was when she had self doubts about her self or in her grief over her father's apparent demise. Both of which were understandable given the circumstances.

I'd hate to think how any children they might have had would be affected unless they do what they did with Lois, just have them smile happily that dad is home for three seconds and continue on like they have the best life ever.

That was covered as well. See "The Insect Queen" story arc by Kurt Busiek and before that, the Mxyzptlk guest spot in Adventures Of Superman #636, by Greg Rucka. And it should be noted, that Clark almost always made time to be Clark Kent before and after he got married.

[Predabot]

Looking at Brevoort's list of ideas and opinions... 2 years later, well, it's pretty much ALL happened, hasn't it? ;)

And you know what? It's been friggin' awesome! ^^ Superman is finally not a GOON for the establishment, finally not a wuss, single, young, dynamic and bad-ass to the nth degree!

Couldn't be happier. Make mine Marvel!

Kind of extra ironic that the peeps at editorial that made this thing happen are mainly old Marvel-peeps as well...

[NotSuper]

Looking at Brevoort's list of ideas and opinions... 2 years later, well, it's pretty much ALL happened, hasn't it? ;)

Indeed. Good ideas tend to win out in the end.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Being in a world full of superheroes doesn't change the fact Superman is the last of his race, hence the loner part.

This would have been great if DC kept it that way but then we got Supergirl, Superboy, more super cousins,
super dictators Zod, Ursa, Jax-Ur,
superhumanoidcomputers, supercats, superdogs like Krypto,
super Supermen from other dimensions like SuperboyPrime,
super bad and strange versions like Bizarro
super clones like superHenshaw, Steel and Manhunter and a whole friggin planet of super Daxamites

[B. Kuwanger]

Indeed. Good ideas tend to win out in the end.

I like how so many of the early posts were like "Brevoort stfu lol"

[Mr. Holmes]

I like how so many of the early posts were like "Brevoort stfu lol"

Hahaha ikr.

Even I have a few posts there trying to justify the marriage.

[The Duke]

Sadly any talk of a relationship between Superman/Clark and Lois is moot because it is, in legal parlance, the fruit of the poisonous tree. The poisonous tree being Kal-L and all things related to him.