Yes, that's exactly what I said. Bad writing leads to bad books and bad sales. I don't think marriage makes or breaks a story.edit: and Superman's sales are bad because its a bad book
Well smallville supes was single for large periods of the show and never got married just a committed relationship.
Mindanao hoping Clark gets with Lucy.
Dc: Action Comics/Animal Man/Swamp Thing/Earth-2/Green Arrow/Batman/Threshold/Batwoman/Justice League/Green Lantern/Teen Titans/Superman/Justice League Dark/I,Vampire.
I'm not sure that clark being married RUINS the character or anything, I mean it's not exactly a betrayal of his character. But it's definitely limiting in some ways. And, btw, smallville superman is not very convincing evidence that he works married or whatever. 1, smallville's superman was pretty bad and 2, even they thought 'ok the wedding is the end of the show guys'
Last edited by petesake; 05-12-2012 at 12:34 PM.
How exactly does marriage limit Superman? I believe the only thing marriage limits is Superman's freedom to date other women.I'm not sure that clark being married RUINS the character or anything, I mean it's not exactly a betrayal of his character. But it's definitely limiting in some ways.
I never argued Smallville was evidence of anything. I quoted the author of the new Smallville: Season 11 comic, which is obviously not the same thing as using the show as evidence. It was just one writer's thoughts on a controversial topic. In any case, Smallville didn't have a pretty bad Superman because Superman didn't exist on the show until the last few minutes of the very last episode and the show ended with the wedding because it was an origin story and it ended when Clark became Superman. Lois and Clark were living together as an engaged couple for most of the final season, however.And, btw, smallville superman is not very convincing evidence that he works married or whatever. 1, smallville's superman was pretty bad and 2, even they thought 'ok the wedding is the end of the show guys'
I just pointed out some ways that it's limiting, particularly the loneliness thing. That you're actually saying superman can be written as more lonely when he's married is, of course, totally absurd and disingenuous of you. Lois is what he most wants in life. Without her, life is more sucky. So if you want to write that, and there's legitimate reasons to make Superman more outsider-ish and less 'i have a perfect life', then it's at least very very hard to do that with him married.
How is it absurd and ridiculous? If Superman wants Lois and is even married to her yet must frequently sacrifice time with her and his relationship with her to serve humanity, then that is a condition that begets loneliness. Superman can have a wife who means everything to him, but if he has to live without her for extended periods of time or he must risk disappointing her (even if she understands) by leaving her behind, then the loss and disconnection is felt more keenly than if Superman never had Lois at all.That you're actually saying superman can be written as more lonely when he's married is, of course, totally absurd and disingenuous of you. Lois is what he most wants in life. Without her, life is more sucky.
Superman's married life with Lois was never perfect and marrying her did not make Superman any less of an outsider. Marrying Lois did not change the fact that Superman was an alien and it did not change the fact that he was the last of his race.So if you want to write that, and there's legitimate reasons to make Superman more outsider-ish and less 'i have a perfect life', then it's at least very very hard to do that with him married.
I think you're ignoring the obvious facts that don't support your own opinion on the subject.
I wonder how people feel about the marriage just in terms of Lois herself. We've heard it can limit stories with Superman as well as those saying it doesn't. But what does Lois get out of it? Did it improve her character or, if you feel Superman is better without it, is she also? Just thinking how marriage should improve both people's lives or why do it. I'm not sure she got the improvement which may be why the marriage was such a problem for some writers since it didn't speak to the truth of marriage. While Superman got someone to share his burden with didn't she just get burdened?
I think you need to make up your mind what you complaining about. You say you want Lois as a strong independent character and when they give you that...you still gripe. It's as if you actually you want her in Clark's face all the time. If Lois was really independent then she should be able to sustain stories herself and arcs herself and not relying on shadowing Superman/Clark. Flashpoint was an attempt to try to sell her but it was a cheat as far as I see because they use Superman and the Amazons and Wonder Woman as a crutch. To be honest she is a typical kind of love interest type of dynamic that bores me to death so and I don't care that much for her... it really does not bother me at all if I don't see her.
I don't know what is so limiting about marriage? What does supes have to gain from hopping from one woman to another...other than a std.
You might as well say he is limited by being heteerosexual. Imagine all the new readers you could gain by having a fresh continuity free relationship between supes and batman?
What kkills me
What kills me is that this (not) new 52 nonsense is all bs.
Assuming that Superman HAS to be isolated, there are a plethora of ways to do it without a reboot. But that would lend weight to a deeper continuity and right now dc wants to create an illusion of being new and fresh in the most imagination free way possible... going back to the way things were decades ago.
And now they want to make him moree like the other grimmer characters so he will be easier to write. He is being degenerated into a generic shade and fans are buying yhis rationalization.
Except he's not being written as grim, not even close.