Tom Brevoort on Superman

[hellacre]

Totally see what Brevoort is saying from a story telling stand point. The marriage had 15 years of a lot of good writers trying with the status quo but Superman as a character (apart from Elseworlds) was very disappointing and failed on many levels to be interesting. He felt very boxed in, bland and conservative and worse even more whiny and he was supposed to be "happily married" . What irony.

DC starts fresh and goes back to his roots with a more modern sensibility and with it comes possibilities.

[davidgrantlloyd]

There's hundreds of superheroes, they can't all be moody loners.

Granted. But few of those superheroes carry the weight of being 'The Last of Their Race' like Superman does. (I know, there's technically a few other Kryptonians out there, but Superman is widely regarded as the 'Last Son of Krypton', 'sole survivor of dead planet', etc ... it's a part of his origin, it's a part of him) Batman, Spiderman, Woverine, etc are not the last of their race. I would therefore argue that the loner aspect is inherent in the character design ... so Superman HAS to be an outsider. He need not necessarily be "moody" (at least not all the time, anyway, and not in the same style as some other characters) but he does have to be a bit of a loner.

[SubjectDelta]

Damsel in distress? You've missed out on decades of characterization if you still see Lois Lane as a damsel in distress. The very concept of the damsel in distress-type character is dated beyond belief.

Superman has characterization beyond being a hero too, he has even been the bad guy, but ultimately that is his purpose. Just like lois purpose is to be the love interest and get in trouble.

They are perfect, really. Superman is the hero who can't be stopped and lodangerous reporter who wont be stopped no matter how dangerous.

[SubjectDelta]

Granted. But few of those superheroes carry the weight of being 'The Last of Their Race' like Superman does. (I know, there's technically a few other Kryptonians out there, but Superman is widely regarded as the 'Last Son of Krypton', 'sole survivor of dead planet', etc ... it's a part of his origin, it's a part of him) Batman, Spiderman, Woverine, etc are not the last of their race. I would therefore argue that the loner aspect is inherent in the character design ... so Superman HAS to be an outsider. He need not necessarily be "moody" (at least not all the time, anyway, and not in the same style as some other characters) but he does have to be a bit of a loner.

He can't really miss or be tortured by what he never knew. He should be a bit of an outsider but not to the point you diminish interesting dynamics.

[Sacred Knight]

Superman has characterization beyond being a hero too, he has even been the bad guy, but ultimately that is his purpose. Just like lois purpose is to be the love interest and get in trouble.

They are perfect, really. Superman is the hero who can't be stopped and lodangerous reporter who wont be stopped no matter how dangerous.

Lois's purpose is to be his number one supporting cast member. She does not need to be, and in fact has stopped being the damsel in distress a long time ago. Time, and a lessening sexist approach in comics, has made this a pretty permanent change.

And therin lies the problem with your comparison. I'm talking a permanent evolution with Lois. With Superman and talks of him being the villain, you're talking about temporary storylines or outright elseworld tales, not meant to be a evolution for the character rather just a plot point to be resolved.

[SubjectDelta]

Lois's purpose is to be his number one supporting cast member. She does not need to be, and in fact has stopped being the damsel in distress a long time ago. Time, and a lessening sexist approach in comics, has made this a pretty permanent change.

And therin lies the problem with your comparison. I'm talking a permanent evolution with Lois. With Superman and talks of him being the villain, you're talking about temporary storylines or outright elseworld tales, not meant to be a evolution for the character rather just a plot point to be resolved.

R
Stopped being the damsel? It was only a few years ago, right before Grounded, that he saved her from Parasite.

That doesn't stand to reason. How can her purpose be as number one cast member? She BECAME number one by serving an important purpose

[J. Robb]

Granted. But few of those superheroes carry the weight of being 'The Last of Their Race' like Superman does. (I know, there's technically a few other Kryptonians out there, but Superman is widely regarded as the 'Last Son of Krypton', 'sole survivor of dead planet', etc ... it's a part of his origin, it's a part of him) Batman, Spiderman, Woverine, etc are not the last of their race. I would therefore argue that the loner aspect is inherent in the character design ... so Superman HAS to be an outsider. He need not necessarily be "moody" (at least not all the time, anyway, and not in the same style as some other characters) but he does have to be a bit of a loner.

The loss of Krypton should be felt more by Supergirl, since she grew up there. And in a world full of superheroes, Superman really shouldn't feel like an outsider. The other heroes look up to him and he should be a leader, by example more than words, and you can't do that as an introvert. We should be inspired by Superman, not feel sory for him.

People want to pile every classical hero element on Superman, but like I said, there's a lot of heroes out there- spread some of that myth around. The funny thing is, being a regular guy who went home to his wife every night made Superman a much more unique character in the superhero world.

[Sacred Knight]

R
Stopped being the damsel? It was only a few years ago, right before Grounded, that he saved her from Parasite.

That doesn't stand to reason. How can her purpose be as number one cast member? She BECAME number one by serving an important purpose

A character being saved every once in a while doesn't automatically make them a damsel in distress. Its not that Lois is hands off from ever having to be rescued. Its just that its been a long time gone since that was her only purpose, or even her most important purpose.

[wyokid]

Sacred Knight, have you read Jeph Loeb's run? It focused a TON on the marriage.

[Sacred Knight]

Loeb's run actually happened after I had let go of a nearly decade long Superman run. Not that I completely lost interest, but you know, high school was ending, work was starting, other stuff just started taking priority. So for the most part I was out of the loop for all of Loeb's run. I would like to get around to it one day...but the only problem is I REALLY dislike McGuiness's Superman.

But for the record I was never one of those who thought that Lois being married to Superman inherently hurt Lois. Not in the least. I felt in the past few years before the reboot happened she started to suffer as a character, but only because of what I thought was flat out neglect.

[J. Robb]

Sacred Knight, have you read Jeph Loeb's run? It focused a TON on the marriage.

Also a ton of angst. Wonder Woman loses her Mother, Lois loses her Father, and yet Superman is the one who needs therapy.

[wyokid]

Loeb's run actually happened after I had let go of a nearly decade long Superman run. Not that I completely lost interest, but you know, high school was ending, work was starting, other stuff just started taking priority. So for the most part I was out of the loop for all of Loeb's run. I would like to get around to it one day...but the only problem is I REALLY dislike McGuiness's Superman.

But for the record I was never one of those who thought that Lois being married to Superman inherently hurt Lois. Not in the least. I felt in the past few years before the reboot happened she started to suffer as a character, but only because of what I thought was flat out neglect.

Dang. I LOVE McGuiness, ESPECIALLY Superman. Anyway, I'd check it out. It's what made me start liking Superman, especially his supporting cast

[SubjectDelta]

A character being saved every once in a while doesn't automatically make them a damsel in distress. Its not that Lois is hands off from ever having to be rescued. Its just that its been a long time gone since that was her only purpose, or even her most important purpose.

So what is the arbitrary quota for damsels in distress?

[davidgrantlloyd]

He can't really miss or be tortured by what he never knew. He should be a bit of an outsider but not to the point you diminish interesting dynamics.

Well, "interesting dynamics" is a point of view. I find the dynamics of this New 52 Superman far more interesting than the married boy scout.

To each their own.

[MichaelPaytonMZ]

I don't have a lot of regard for Brevoort's opinions on the comics he has _{screwed up} worked on, why would I care what he has to say about his competition?