Originally Posted by Alex Dragon
Even in the Superman films, he's still Clark Kent at his heart. Not Kal-El. Sure in the Lester footage Clark is refered to as a disguise, but that's how he's presented to the world. When Donner did the de-powering sequence, that is the only time he is even remotely Kal-El. But he's still both in that moment. He's dressed as Clark, but speaking as Superman. Afterwards, he's just Clark Kent until he returns to the Fortress. In Donner's ending, the Fortress is destroyed leaving only Superman and Clark Kent. The destruction of the Fortress is symbolic of Clark's severing the ties to Krypton, thus ending both Jor-El and Kal-El in one fell swoop. In the third film, he is every bit Clark Kent when he goes back to Smallville. Even when his bumbling is limited to a few scenes. By the fourth film, the balance is perfect as he finally states that he is no longer a visitor. He cannot turn his back on the people of Earth, becauses they refuse to stop fighting on their own. He's too much a part of them to just up and leave. SR took a different path where Clark wants to see if Jor-El was wrong, but finds that he wasn't. He struggles with the fact that part of him feels human, but also knows that he is not. But in that film, he's not Kal-El. Even when he hears Jor-El talk to him as such.
Really, the only way "Kal-El as a real person works", is if he was raised on Krypton and came to Earth as a teen or an adult. In the real world we know for a fact that people who find out that they are adopted don't automatically become a different person. Or even take on their original birth name, if their name was changed. Who they are growing up is who they are now. Byrne's assertion makes the most sense. Robinson wrote that despite growing up and seeing all these historical texts and holograms about Krypton, he still feels like an outsider. He still feels human. He's not Thor who has been depicted as two beings living in one body. He's not schizo like the Sentry. He's not a total alien like Gladiator who has no dual identity. He's not Mister Majestic.
Also check out Hulk, Thor and Surfer. They still have good stories. Heck, even He-Man was fun to read.
It's not just 'threats' that makes Superman's Stories interesting, but the actual challenges he faces.
For Me, Superman's Books were fun. They took me away from all this darkness and grim crap. I loved reading about the most powerful hero that no bad guy wanted to get in the way of. I barely see him getting any respect anymore
Hypothetically- Lois is investing Lexcorp and is getting close to something. Lex has an underling rough her up.
Clark: Even leaving aside the clutz take, can't beat up the underling without blowing the mild-mannered rep. At best he can put up a valiant but losing fight hoping no one notices he isn't getting bruised.
Superman: Can't be seen as playing favorites or being vindictive. Has to simply arrest the underling who hurt his wife.
Kal-El: Internally we see that what Superman wants to do is cripple this guy- but is forced to hold back both in his Clark guise and his Superman guise.
Besides, to paraphrase Alan Moore- there are so many comics on the stands these days that DON'T portray a happy, married couple, certainly there can be some room for one comic that does.
I can imagine all the kids looking at that version of Superman. You know what the kids would say? Not COOL! They'd say LOSER!
He told her, but the more important detail is that she never believes him. As a result, their relationship ends up little different than before he told her. I'd say that makes the series closer in spirit to a single Superman. ALL STAR kept the fundamental strength of single Superman: the way it emphasizes the character's isolation.Besides, the All Star Superman already told Lois is secret so the Clark-Lois relationship was closer to the marriage in terms of the kind of stories you can tell than the love triangle.
Last edited by Dubbilex; 01-01-2011 at 07:05 PM.
Tom's whole anti-marriage stance on Superman is just something I vehemently disagree with as I don't see the advantage in making him single one way or another. I also don't care for the whole lonely Kryptonian thing, the marriage basically strengthens his character and makes him less mopey as Tom seems to think works.
He may be the last of his kind but as people have already stated he already has his own family on earth (Kara, Kon-El, Krypto, Kents) as well as a lot of fellow superheroes who he can hang out with.
I understand what Tom B. was trying to say. But what he says only makes sense if we're talking about a Kal who is really playing a part as Clark Kent. I think back in the days of Clark pretending to be the bumbling reporter then "Kal" is the real person but last I read the Superman books Clark isn't that different around Lois or his parents than he is around friends/co-workers at the Planet other than he doesn't talk about being Superman. Or it doesn't make sense unless Clark had lots of exposure to his Kyrptonian heritage and decided to embrace it. Otherwise, Clark is basically the kid from Smallville who grew up and moved to Metropolis and puts on a disguise to help people when they need it. Clark isn't an "act" that "Kal" puts on because there's no real reason for him to be.I think you are taking the "Kal-El" part too literally. I think the term was being used the same way "Smallville Clark" is used, just a way to define something that isn't the superhero face or the persona used to throw people off track. The idea that Clark acts differently around the Kents, Lois, the JLA; etc than he does in the Daily Planet bullpen or when dealing with the public as Superman.
This has happened a bit recently, so I'm calling it out here. Think of this when you want to create new threads.
Put some thought into it. Do not just give a topic and then say "Discuss" or "Why". Also, do not provide only a link to somewhere else or copy/paste an entire article from elsewhere and nothing else as the whole post. If you want to talk about something, talk about it. Put some effort into it and make it a springboard for future conversation.
Last edited by Justin D.; 01-02-2011 at 02:17 PM.
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Try that kind of Superman in the regular books, and the eventual writer drain and the monthly grind, the need for two to three Superman stories per month, any Superman stories, is going to make this unworkable in the long run. This is a big part of why they did Crisis On Infinite Earths in the first place: one of the main goals was to get a more workable Superman.
'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."