CBR: Tilting at Windmills - Dec 16, 2010

[CBR News]

Brian Hibbs is at it again this month with a look at 2010 sales figures, an examination of "deconstructed" storytelling, the effect of event comics and rising prices on periodical sales and more.


Full article here.

[bluetyson]

I think you pretty much nailed it exactly.

Heaps of rubbish rump titles for one character/team.
New number 1's as stunts, then back to 600 etc.
Deconstructed stories so the comics take 2 minutes to read.

A gratuitous example of the latter - the spousal unit picked up an issue of 'Secret Warriors'. There is a splash page near the end - one whole page - of Nick Fury sitting at a table talking to a couple of no-name spies and not even saying anything of interest. What an absolute and utter waste of money.

And in Australia, comics often are double, even those almost equal to the US dollar now.

Occasionally you see comics in a newsagent - a couple of months ago a garden variety JLA comic was 8.95 that I saw.

Can actually order a novel or anthology from The Book Depository for 25% less than that.

The digital thing - for someone reason they are too paranoid to let you buy comics to download. Which makes no sense as the possible expansion 'save the industry/growth' markets outside the USA in general don't have all you can eat always on mobile bandwidth to enable people to afford internet connections and expensive devices to just read a comic - paying for bandwidth by the megabyte is bad if you want to do something rash like read your new comic twice on your phone. Not to mention for desktops flash is pretty horrible compared to the actual image files in a CBR - and much less flexible as far as bigger/smaller zoom etc.

[Charles Knight]

The thing is, during the last couple of economic downturns, comics did reasonably well (at least in my store). The conventional wisdom has been “comics are a low cost, high entertainment item, and that’s attractive in bad economic times”

I just think times have changed, even without the recent price increases comic represent very poor value for money. Let's say I buy five comics in week, those comics might take me 30 minutes to read, maybe 40 if I stop to go to the toilet. For the same money, I can have a Bluray rental subscription that allows me to have two disks at home and unlimited access to the stream service provided by the company - it's far better value and it's value that I can share around, my nieces when they visit can watch something, the missus can put films on my list - comics just don't provide that level of added value.

The other issue is that a lot of services are complimentary - if you take Spotify (which I know is not currently available in the US) for the cost of my five comics I can have unlimited streaming music at home and on my phone - and as I already pay for unlimited internet, the two services go together nicely (and that also makes the streaming service provided by bluray rental subscription more attractive).

I honestly the situation can be turned around because there is no economic way to make comics represent better value for money.

[Steve Broome]

^^ By that argument people wouldn't be paying close to $20.00 for 2 hour Imax/3d movies, or $.99 for a song that's 3 minutes long. The minute by minute comparison of entertainment doesn't work all that well. I also take issue with people talking about the subscription costs of things like Netflix as if they exist in a vacuum. For the $10.00 people are paying for that, you'll usually need to add in the cost of high-speed internet access required to get good streaming service from those places. That's another $40.00. The streaming on your phone requires a data plan, which costs you another $30.00 or whatever, as well as the cost of the device you're viewing it on. And we can't make the argument that the two aren't tied together with the latest numbers on Netflix's service accounting for such a large amount of internet traffic (and this will only get more costly with tiered data plans).

It's arguable whether or not hand-crafted art already makes comics better value for the money(for me it does) although I agree $4 is just too much for a single issue - it drove me to trade waiting unfortunately.

FWIW every form of entertainment seems to be having issues. They can't even get another Bond movie funded.

[Charles Knight]

^^ By that argument people wouldn't be paying close to $20.00 for 2 hour Imax/3d movies, or $.99 for a song that's 3 minutes long. The minute by minute comparison of entertainment doesn't work all that well. It's arguable whether or not hand-crafted art already makes comics better value for the money(for me it does) although I agree $4 is just too much for a single issue - it drove me to trade waiting unfortunately.

FWIW every form of entertainment seems to be having issues. They can't even get another Bond movie funded.

I wouldn't dispute any of that, but I'd say there are two types of consumer spends, there is the regular weekly disposable income spends (comics, subscription services, music) and then there are more discretionary items that come up and are a case by case basis (Imax, concerts etc). I think comics for most people are bad value when considered as part of their regularly weekly DI. Having said that, singles are an odd one because at $.99, it's throwaway, I think comics are at that price point that makes them seem bad value.

[Jude]

The trend of “deconstructed” storytelling, where writers aren’t as focused on writing jam-packed single issues, but, rather stories paced for the “inevitable” collection....

I think the word is "episodic."

[DownInAHole]

There are a few things that Marvel are doing that are really pissing me off.

1) Producing extra-sized issues that contain standard-sized stories. If I'm paying an extra buck for an issue give me extra story pages. I don't want reprints/handbook entries or 8 page recaps. It especially galls me that more often than not Marvel don't say in advance what the extra content is. Some books give you extra story pages while some do not. As a reader I am forced to guess and so I've stopped buying most $3.99/40 page books because I'm tired of Marvel's deceptive way of doing business.

2) $3.99 #1 issues on ongoing books. In a lot of cases the price drops down to $2.99 with the second issue but because of the padding of $3.99 books with reprints I have stopped buying most #1 issues unless it is something that I really want to read. If I'm skipping the #1 issue I'm obviously not going to start reading the series with #2. I strongly suspect other readers feel the same and this is likely part of the reason that most new titles are canceled within the first year (Young Allies, Hawkeye and Mockingbird, Black Widow et cetera)

3) Remember that announcement at NYCC regarding $2.99 books? Well, I'm sure that they told us that new books (which I guess means ongoings) would be priced at $2.99. Then I noticed that the first issue of Iron Man 2.0, a book that is going to struggle to find an audience regardless of price, is priced at...$3.99 (the second issue is $2.99). Marvel have started to release some books at $2.99 and it seemed like they were finally getting it and then they price an Iron Man spinoff book at $3.99. They really just don't get it.

4) Decompression! I know it's an old argument but let me cite just one example. Invincible Iron Man is a book that I have found extremely frustrating. Over the last two years we have slogged through the 12 part (!) World's Most Wanted arc, followed by the five part Stark Disassembled (which was basically an extension of the previous arc) and the 8 part (!) Stark Resilient. Very, very little has happened in all of those issues and I was wondering why I was buying the book and now Marvel have decided to make it a $3.99/32 page book. That was enough to make me drop it. If ever there was a book that suffered from decompression this is it. I don't think it was worth $2.99 and I know that it's not worth $3.99.

Mr. Hibbs mentioned jumping off points and I will be using the point one issues as jumping off points for several books (Invincible Iron Man, Thor and, possibly, Captain America and maybe some others). I'm the type of reader that enjoys buying all of the core books in both the Marvel and DC universes and for me money is not an issue but I am dropping some Marvel books because they don't seem to be good value and because the company seems to be more concerned with chasing a quick buck rather than producing quality books. Hopefully if their bottom line starts to suffer they will wake up and change their ways but I don't have much hope of that happening.

[Fuzman]

I think the word is "episodic."

Nope, it's deconstructed. It means taking 5 issues to tell a story instead of 2 or 3, or even 1. Most superhero comics are episodic.

1) Producing extra-sized issues that contain standard-sized stories. If I'm paying an extra buck for an issue give me extra story pages. I don't want reprints/handbook entries or 8 page recaps. It especially galls me that more often than not Marvel don't say in advance what the extra content is. Some books give you extra story pages while some do not. As a reader I am forced to guess and so I've stopped buying most $3.99/40 page books because I'm tired of Marvel's deceptive way of doing business.

Ultimate spider-man #150. the book was 5.99. A slightly longer regular issue, 32 pages I think and then they reprinted the Ultimate spider-man special from a few years ago. WTF?!? If I had known that I wouldn't have got this issue. When that first came out it was oversized and overpriced. Now I just got rooked into getting it twice!

I switched from my LCS to ordering online for the discounts. Which is great, but now it makes me wonder when I get an issue that doesn't interest me as much, when I get stop buying it. Thunderbolts #150. Boom, i'm done. Once this secret avengers shang chi story is over, I'm done. Angel is moving to Dark horse, I'm through with it once it does.

My monthly spending will drop to less than 20 bucks which 2 years ago I never would've thought possible. On the other hand...Yay Avengers movie?!

[rgapfrost]

Nope, it's deconstructed. It means taking 5 issues to tell a story instead of 2 or 3, or even 1.

Nope, it's decompressed.

[Thad]

rgapfrost is correct; "decompressed" is the correct word. "Deconstruction" is the postmodernist spin that guys like Moore and Morrison have put on superheroes over the years.

(And "episodic" refers to series being made up of individual stories. When I hear the word I think of done-in-one stories, but you could also use it for 6-issue arcs collected in trades; in that case, the "episode" is the trade, not a single issue.)

...anyway. As far as all the unemployment talk, well, I found out this week I'll be joining those ranks come New Year's. First thing I did was give my CBG a list of books not to hold for me anymore -- so-so stuff that I don't love but could justify purchasing every month as long as I had an income.

I don't intend to quit buying comics unless my finances get REALLY dire, but I'm going to have to spend a lot less on them for awhile.

[poneley]

I only got two points-

As a consumer I want trades and hardcovers. I'm tired of "collecting comics". I'm not 12 anymore. I don't have the space. If Mr. Hibbs is complaining that comics are no longer "collectible" then screw it. What Marvel and DC need to do is make big pushes when the hardcover and/or paperback are released. I keep close track of the releases and have a "pull list" for paperbacks and hardcovers but not everyone else does. Put the newly released collections up front like the new single issues. Quit fighting and quit complaining of the low selling single issues. We no longer want single issues. As a consumer I want trades from my favorite characters and creative teams. Its a simple as that.

Second thing, Mr. Hibbs mentioned “Walking Dead” or a “Scott Pilgrim” or a “Y, The Last Man”. Why haven't Marvel, DC or anyone created properties that people who enjoyed those books can get more of. If you like Walking Dead, read this. If you like Scott Pilgrim, read that. Its simple. My non-comic book reading buddy devoured Scott Pilgrim but I didn't really have any suggestions for other similar type books. This is a major fail for all publishers.

[CALuke]

I think you pretty much nailed it exactly.

Heaps of rubbish rump titles for one character/team.
New number 1's as stunts, then back to 600 etc.
Deconstructed stories so the comics take 2 minutes to read.

A gratuitous example of the latter - the spousal unit picked up an issue of 'Secret Warriors'. There is a splash page near the end - one whole page - of Nick Fury sitting at a table talking to a couple of no-name spies and not even saying anything of interest. What an absolute and utter waste of money.

And in Australia, comics often are double, even those almost equal to the US dollar now.

Occasionally you see comics in a newsagent - a couple of months ago a garden variety JLA comic was 8.95 that I saw.

Can actually order a novel or anthology from The Book Depository for 25% less than that.

The digital thing - for someone reason they are too paranoid to let you buy comics to download. Which makes no sense as the possible expansion 'save the industry/growth' markets outside the USA in general don't have all you can eat always on mobile bandwidth to enable people to afford internet connections and expensive devices to just read a comic - paying for bandwidth by the megabyte is bad if you want to do something rash like read your new comic twice on your phone. Not to mention for desktops flash is pretty horrible compared to the actual image files in a CBR - and much less flexible as far as bigger/smaller zoom etc.

Don't buy comics from newsagents in Australia, get them from Comics shop like mind where where we get them 2 mouths before the newsagents do and only cost $6.80AUD($3.99USD) or $5.10($2.99USD).
And I'm sorry today as a Ausisse Comic Shop, I can't help but agreed with BH, things are not looking good right now.
But I do like the fact DC pieces are going down, that can only help a shop like mind where we have more DC fans then Marvel.

[Brian Hibbs]

If Mr. Hibbs is complaining that comics are no longer "collectible" then screw it.

I am not. I run a bookstore that specializes in comics. We don't deal in collectibles whatsoever.

Quit fighting and quit complaining of the low selling single issues. We no longer want single issues. As a consumer I want trades from my favorite characters and creative teams. Its a simple as that.

The thing is that the overwhelming majority of comics really need a robust periodical circulation, or some other method to offset the relatively high creative costs relative to other print media. Otherwise they'd never ever ever get to the TP stage because the risk/return ratio for the publisher would be far far too high.

Second thing, Mr. Hibbs mentioned “Walking Dead” or a “Scott Pilgrim” or a “Y, The Last Man”. Why haven't Marvel, DC or anyone created properties that people who enjoyed those books can get more of.

Books with those special qualities to be real sales drivers are somewhat akin to catching lightning in a bottle -- you simply can't say "We want something that's just like WALKING DEAD" and expect that you'll get anything better than a cynically hacked out P.O.S.

-B

[idkidd]

The thing is: this is a self-inflicted wound. Event marketing, line expansions, overproduction of minis and new #1s, price increases -- these were all things that publishers chose to do in order to make as much money as they could.

And, as such, I suspect that the course can be corrected with hard work and some radical rethinking of strategies.

I just don't believe Marvel and DC will do this. The thing is that this cycle of event marketing, line expansions, overproduction of minis and new #1s, and price increases has all happened BEFORE and in very recent history. And the big publishers seemed to have learned NOTHING from it except how to efficiently and systematically wring even MORE of the last dollar from the pockets of fans that can't say "no". I just find it so sad.

And yeah the smaller publishers are guilty as well but what other choice do they have? They are caught up in trying to do the same thing on a smaller scale and maintain their market share and visibility for their mini lines and franchises while getting as many "sure sales" as they can for as long as possible. It is like some sick arms race that is going to inevitably lead to a crash and people getting hurt. We survived it 15 years ago but learned nothing from the experience. Now with the whole industry relying on the financial health of 1 distributor and all the other new factors cited in your article, can we survive it again?

[mmurphy1968]

I think Mr. Hibbs is correct. How Many Avengers books do we have these days? X-Men? Superman? Batman? Green Lantern? This type of thing has driven me from all of the titles that are "family" book years ago. The exceptions are GL and Legion because I am really enjoying them all but with four GL titles (GL, GL Corps, GL: Emerald Warriors and Brightest Day) I am considering dropping theGL line.