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  1. #16
    33408 is the other way ian33407's Avatar
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    something else than an oleoptical dégradé - yes, some are wonderful...

  2. #17
    33408 is the other way ian33407's Avatar
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    You know what i mean...

  3. #18
    Senior Member Ilash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian33407 View Post
    why not bringing back the missed pages, still to $ 2.99, but with a less exhaustive paper...you know, the 'pulp' stuff.

    if the editors maintain the 20 pages issues, then i want more cases...( that ain't for you Jason, just something i noticed reading 'Essentials' ) even for the current 22 pages issues, that work too.
    From everything I've heard, newsprint isn't actually any cheaper than the glossy alternative - certainly not enough to make a difference. Besides, most Vertigo titles are done on "cheaper" paper but it's not like they cost less than DC's superhero line.
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  4. #19
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey View Post
    Its baffling that publishers went straight from 2.99 to 3.99, which is a huge price increase for any product. Think about it. If the initial jump were $3.25 (which is about 8%) across the board, I guarantee fans would not have been so vehemently opposed.

    In my industry, across the board price hikes are 3-5%, not like the exorbitant 33% hike Marvel/DC tried to charge.
    Marvel did it because they believed - somewhat rightly it seems - that fans would still pay that price, and if sales dropped, it didn't matter as they were still making an extra buck an issue sold.

    John Turitzin said that it was done to maximize profits, so there's no factor other than wanting to make more money behind the increase.
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  5. #20
    Veteran Member Ari Gold's Avatar
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    I think Mr. Aaron's columns are incredibly insightful.
    Especially if you compare it to some of the running columns or Q&A's available on CBR.
    The level of honesty shines through. Without following cookie-cutter questions, there's a tremendous amount of flexibility in Aaron's topics. Additionally, we don't get the canned teases and non-information that is so popular in other creator/company CBR-featured columns.

  6. #21
    Resident Fanboy Erik Larsen's Avatar
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    Comics were 20-pages long for years. Most of the issues of Stan and Jack's FF and Thor were 20 pages as were Stan and Steve's Spider-Man (and Stan and John's for that matter). And there was a long while books were shorter still--at one point new comics had just 17-pages of story--most of those Claremont/Byrne/Austin X-Men comics were 17-pages long. Years earlier it was typical to have several stories in a comic book and 15 pages would be considered a long one. A 22-page story is a relatively recent development (it's been in place as long as I've been in comics but still, given the history of the medium, my 28-years is a tick of the clock) and generations have managed to make due with considerably fewer pages (and almost no continued stories).

    It may not be a big time saver for the writer to write 20 pages as opposed to 22 but for an artist--it sure is. 22 is an awkward number of pages to schedule--at 20 an artist can do a page a day and bang through an issue in a month--that extra two always makes things messy in one week or another--and if two pages means saving $1--well, that's not a hard pill to swallow at all. I think what we'll find is that artists will have an easier time making deadlines and that will result in fewer fill-in issues and more consistency and that's a big plus. All things considered--I think it's the right move to make.

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  7. #22
    Resident Fanboy Erik Larsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey
    Its baffling that publishers went straight from 2.99 to 3.99, which is a huge price increase for any product.
    But not unprecedented for comics. They jumped from 15˘ to 20˘ and years later from 75˘ to $1, both of which is that same 33% price jump.
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  8. #23
    33408 is the other way ian33407's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilash View Post
    From everything I've heard, newsprint isn't actually any cheaper than the glossy alternative - certainly not enough to make a difference. Besides, most Vertigo titles are done on "cheaper" paper but it's not like they cost less than DC's superhero line.
    if that ain't the printing quality ( to handle the new colouring media ) and neither the paper' qualityn why are comics so exhaustive then ? help me coz i'm lost...

    i don't think neither Vertigo titles are printing on a 'cheaper' paper...that ain't definetely not what i would call a 'cheaper' paper they're printing on, oh no.

  9. #24
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    Default Marvel still no 1?

    I am of the impression that Marvel is losing market share due to the 4$ titles. Looking at the sales report from the last months, it seems as though DC is owning the top 10, even 20 spots. In my case, Marvel's dramatic price increase has completely changed my comic book reading habits. I wouldn't even consider buying one of the Ultimate titles, despite the talented Mr. Aaron's and Mr. Garney's involvement on Ultimate Cap. All of a sudden, I am far more tempted to pick up more moderately priced titles from Image and Dark Horse, and even non-Vertigo DC.

    The problem for Marvel is that hardcore-Marveliites might start sampling DC titles in an attempt to appease their superhero-fix without having to spend ridiculous amounts of money. Then, they might discover that they actually enjoy the DC Universe, and start distributing their money more equally among the big 2.

    Ultimately, I believe it possible that Marvel could lose its position as the No 1 comic book company due to this 4$ debacle.

  10. #25
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    Thanks to both Mr Aaron and Mr Larsen for their comments on this. I have to say that the couple of LCS that I normally visit all seem guardedly enthusiastic about DCs price change. The general local consensus is that something like this has to be tried to see if that stems the tide of sales sliding.

    I am a little, hmmm, perhaps "put off" is too strong, but maybe a little nervous by the comment "I can almost guarantee you it takes Warren Ellis and Matt Fraction a lot longer to write their 16 page issues of Fell and Casanova than it does any of their 22 page comics." Perhaps it was unintentional but to me the implication is that some creators put more effort and and story into certain efforts than into others (as in mainstream comics).

    I can understand a writer putting more effort into his/her own properties and I sort of assume that in the back of my mind. But as a reader it is not something I like to hear said out loud. Kind of like reading a hot dog recipe.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    Hopefully any lost income from the DC page reduction will be made up in greater sales from those series due to the lowered price point.
    I sincerely doubt that will happen. And if that's what DC's intention was, they are delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by ian33407 View Post
    why not bringing back the missed pages, still to $ 2.99, but with a less exhaustive paper...you know, the 'pulp' stuff.
    Scalped, and all Vertigo books if I'm not mistaken, are not printed on fancy glossy paper.

  12. #27
    Space Monkey NielsVanEekelen's Avatar
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    Very interesting column.

    I'd just like to say that for my part, I care less about whether a story impacts the whole of the Marvel Universe (although those stories certainly have their own appeal) and more about whether they matter to the starring characters of that specific story.

    To take Wolverine as an example, for a period of many years, Wolverine stories rarely actually impacted Logan--the worst offenders being those endless oneshots. Some were decent stories, but they all left Logan as they found him. He was too big a character to change, and he hasn't had his own supporting cast since... since Larry Hama was on the book, perhaps?

    That's why aside from some Wolverine: First Class, I think "Adamantium Men" was the first Wolverine solo book I bought since Origin.
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  13. #28

    Default 20 Page Count = Forces A Tighter Story

    I'm all for 20 pages as I think it will force writers/editors to tighten things up somewhat and cut down some of the wasted panels/pages. I hate reading a comic that has three or four full splash pages with little dialogue. Art is great, but I'm more interested in things happening in a story. Just read a Fantastic Four comic from several months back where an entire page was devoted to Franklin giving someone a sandwich. Sorry - I'm enjoying this series now, but that was a waste of time. Cutting two pages a month will hopefully help to eliminate some waste. And, two pages for $1.00 savings is a very good thing!

  14. #29
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    I still would have preferred MORE pages and the price increase. In a couple of years the books will be $4 anyway (they'll probably stop briefly at $3.50 first, after this PR debacle), and will those pages come back? (answer: no)

    20 pages a month of a story... for that matter, generally a decompressed story... just isn't very much. And yeah, the trades will now be shorter too.

    Things get more expensive. It's the nature of inflation, it simply WILL happen. It would be nice if at some point the story was served as well.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by fever00 View Post
    I knew this was going to happen. I asked Brian Wood how this would affect the last year of DMZ, and he said it wouldn't but.. fuck. Aaron is right, and I'm pissed. I'm pretty sure some books will be OK, but this has the potential to dramatically affect older that are nearing the finish line.
    I'll clarify this... I'm with Jason about the difficulties of writing 20 pages vs. 22, and I certainly agree about the financial side of it for creators. As far as it affected the end of DMZ, its not going to change the story or the number of issues, but like Jason also said, its probably going to mean some deleted scenes.

    brian w

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