The Masters of Ryozanpaku vs Yujiro Hanma

[Nik Hasta]

It's a fine opening post but it still kind of ignores the speed deficit Yujiro is facing here. He's not nearly as fast as Apachai, Shigure, Hayato or Akisame. Sakaki and Kensei don't have as good speedfeats so I'm willing to entertain the notion that he can keep up with them in combat.

That is, unless I am forgetting some utterly ba-nay-nays speedfeats for Yujiro. I honestly don't think he can keep up with the Ryozanpaku side.

[Guy1]

It's a fine opening post but it still kind of ignores the speed deficit Yujiro is facing here. He's not nearly as fast as Apachai, Shigure, Hayato or Akisame. Sakaki and Kensei don't have as good speedfeats so I'm willing to entertain the notion that he can keep up with them in combat.

That is, unless I am forgetting some utterly ba-nay-nays speedfeats for Yujiro. I honestly don't think he can keep up with the Ryozanpaku side.

He can apparently casually do the Mach Punch thingy, but that's about it as far as speedfeats go from what I've seen.

[citizenlion]

Who would be the fastest Ryozanpaku Master after Hayato?

That would be Ma Kensei. In every scene so far when all the masters move together as a group to respond to some immediate urgency, Ma is always shown first (other than the Elder), then Akisame, the rest in mixed orders.

This scene shows just how fast they are (and this is not when any of them tried their hardest). http://www.****************/historys...kenichi/491/16

I did an analysis of this scene on the onemanga forum, and based on fighting style and the aura each fighter projected, the order of the "missiles" are as follow: the fastest one doing a mid-air dash is the elder. The one with a spiral ki around it, being second fastest, is Ma Kensei (whose main style focuses on the concept of spirals). The third, an unadorn smooth ki, is Akisame, who is the most level-headed of the bunch. The two ragged, explosive ki's of about the same speed is Apachai and Sasaki's. The final one who did comparatively smaller jumps is Shigure, who once commented that she is not a "crazy walker", and would stand on top of trains and cars to get to places instead of just jumping. That said they are all nearly the same speed, with the distance covered during that instance being marginally different.

And there is of course the direct speed comparison in the rock paper scissor scene, where Ma won despite being predicted http://www.****************/337-5495...apter-388.html

But overall I would still say in a all-out fight, Akisame is still the second in Ryozanpaku, because he has insane, unthinkable endurance, and this is among people who are all superhumans.

Edit: the direct links in this post don't work, but just go to mangareader and look up that particular chapter/page. Cheers.

[Nik Hasta]

You shouldn't directly reference manga hosting sites on the forum. We are not allowed to do that.

In terms of feats, Hayato is fastest, then Shigure, then Akisame, then Apachai and then Sakaki and Kensei haven't got much.

[citizenlion]

You shouldn't directly reference manga hosting sites on the forum. We are not allowed to do that.

In terms of feats, Hayato is fastest, then Shigure, then Akisame, then Apachai and then Sakaki and Kensei haven't got much.

Actually, it is well-established that Ma is faster than Sasaki and Shigure. He is the only one shown to be able to nearly keeping up with the Bewitching Fist (Mikumo Kushinada), who is in a similar class to the Elder. In fact Mikumo commented herself that he was the only one (other than the Elder of course) who could kept up with her speed. She easily danced circles around both Sasaki and Shigure fighting together, and Shigure only managed to notice where Mikumo was due to the smell of her perfume/necklace.

The only comparison that was not directly made was between Ma and Apachai, but I guess we can safely assume that Ma is faster here.

[Nik Hasta]

Actually, it is well-established that Ma is faster than Sasaki and Shigure. He is the only one shown to be able to nearly keeping up with the Bewitching Fist (Mikumo Kushinada), who is in a similar class to the Elder. In fact Mikumo commented herself that he was the only one (other than the Elder of course) who could kept up with her speed. She easily danced circles around both Sasaki and Shigure fighting together, and Shigure only managed to notice where Mikumo was due to the smell of her perfume/necklace.

The only comparison that was not directly made was between Ma and Apachai, but I guess we can safely assume that Ma is faster here.

When did Kensei specifically keep up with Mikumo?

Seriously drawing a blank on that happening.

Also, Shigure has feats of cutting multiple shapes into waterfalls, deflecting full autofire while looking bored, blitzing the hell out of the Iai-style guy whose name escapes me when she did her "Become-on-with-sword," trick and tagging Mikumo. She's plenty fast.

[citizenlion]

When did Kensei specifically keep up with Mikumo?

Seriously drawing a blank on that happening.

Also, Shigure has feats of cutting multiple shapes into waterfalls, deflecting full autofire while looking bored, blitzing the hell out of the Iai-style guy whose name escapes me when she did her "Become-on-with-sword," trick and tagging Mikumo. She's plenty fast.

Ah the scene in question was in chapter 334 - Finale. It's the scene right after the battle on the sea with the Laughing Fist. Mikumo then commented that he was the only one who could chase after all of her ki-feints.

It was then later shown that both Sasaki and Shigure together trying to follow these ki-feints and could not, and Shigure only managed to tag Mikumo by following her perfume smell, not by seeing her.

If you read the scenes where Shigure tries to attack Kensei with her blade for peeping/touching her, Kensei often dodged all of these with a bored or playful expression as well. There is one particular scene where he just laid still for Shigure to step on his face, but he is probably enjoying that immensely :D

[Nik Hasta]

Ah the scene in question was in chapter 334 - Finale. It's the scene right after the battle on the sea with the Laughing Fist. Mikumo then commented that he was the only one who could chase after all of her ki-feints.

It was then later shown that both Sasaki and Shigure together trying to follow these ki-feints and could not, and Shigure only managed to tag Mikumo by following her perfume smell, not by seeing her.

I kind of disagree that that's really a decent feat for Kensei. Certainly not something that sets him apart from the other masters.

For one thing, she doesn't comment that he's "The only one," who could keep up with her ki feints, she says "There's not many," who could do it. An entirely different thing, she's not singling out Kensei as notably exceptional, merely complimenting him on not being completely useless.

Second, he attacks her afterimages and achieves all of nothing leaving Mikumo free just nab Rachael without any problems. As far as I can tell, Mikumo is pretty clearly just toying with him in a similar manner to how she later toyed Sakaki and Shigure as, like them, Kensei also isn't able to lay a glove on her.

Conversely, Shigure actually tagged her, implying that her speed is enough to actually keep up with Mikumo if she doesn't rely on her eyes. Heck, Mikumo asks her her name and says she'll remember it which is more than she did for Kensei. I would argue that based on their interaction with Mikumo, Shigure is faster.

If you read the scenes where Shigure tries to attack Kensei with her blade for peeping/touching her, Kensei often dodged all of these with a bored or playful expression as well. There is one particular scene where he just laid still for Shigure to step on his face, but he is probably enjoying that immensely :D

And this is predicated on the idea that Shigure is actually trying seriously to hurt Kensei. We have no evidence of that. It's clear they are both just playing around.

[Eternal Torment]

When did Kensei specifically keep up with Mikumo?

Seriously drawing a blank on that happening.

Also, Shigure has feats of cutting multiple shapes into waterfalls, deflecting full autofire while looking bored, blitzing the hell out of the Iai-style guy whose name escapes me when she did her "Become-on-with-sword," trick and tagging Mikumo. She's plenty fast.

Oh yeah, Sai Kagerou. The guy with the reflexive supersonic iaijutsu.

Man, I still can't figure out how his secret technique was supposed to be different from his regular iai slashes.

[Nik Hasta]

Oh yeah, Sai Kagerou. The guy with the reflexive supersonic iaijutsu.

Man, I still can't figure out how his secret technique was supposed to be different from his regular iai slashes.

It was more a sword of weird stab technique than a slash as I understood it.

It wasn't the best super move ever.

[Eternal Torment]

It was more a sword of weird stab technique than a slash as I understood it.

It wasn't the best super move ever.

It's also kind of nonsensical. Last I checked, katanas were better at slashing than thrusting.

Plus it wasn't really any faster than normal, so it shouldn't be a super move.

[Nik Hasta]

It's also kind of nonsensical. Last I checked, katanas were better at slashing than thrusting.

Plus it wasn't really any faster than normal, so it shouldn't be a super move.

I think it made it harder to block, I don't know.

But yeah, while Kagerou had some pretty epic abilities, his techniques were a little one-dimensional.

[Eternal Torment]

I think it made it harder to block, I don't know.

But yeah, while Kagerou had some pretty epic abilities, his techniques were a little one-dimensional.

Well, I don't remember it being hard to block in general, it was difficult only because Shigure was mid-air when he pulled that move out.

And yeah, I guess he relied more on the speed and precision of his iai slashes more than techniques. I'm not sure if any of the Ryozanpaku Masters below Shigure in speed could handle Sai.

[citizenlion]

well, the translation for Mikumo's comment in chapter 334 is actually "there is not anyone who can chase after all of my shadows like that", not "there are not many..." But perhaps that is not solid, conclusive proof.

But then, Ma (and Akisame) had never been pushed to any situation that they had to really go all out, and Ma especially, since after his battle with the laughing fist even his clothes didn't have any mark on... so it's hard to tell what his limits are.

But just from his normal feats, we can see things like being able to, eh, remove the underwear from under a famous assassin's armour while she was trying to kill him with a katana, all this done with one hand, and then... calmly fold the underwear items into a neat pile...

I hope we will see a fight soon where Ma will have to go all out.

[FistofIron]

It's a fine opening post but it still kind of ignores the speed deficit Yujiro is facing here. He's not nearly as fast as Apachai, Shigure, Hayato or Akisame. Sakaki and Kensei don't have as good speedfeats so I'm willing to entertain the notion that he can keep up with them in combat.

That is, unless I am forgetting some utterly ba-nay-nays speedfeats for Yujiro. I honestly don't think he can keep up with the Ryozanpaku side.

I think Sakaki is has the speed advantage. He has done stuff like blitz ringers and blitz people who blitz ringers.