Big Time and the fresh start -- the new sales results and predictions mega-thread

[Duy]

I don't know if it did or not -- but it seems if one wants cold, hard facts concerning one aspect of sales, then one ought to try to get all the cold hard facts about sales.

?? ASM maintained the same relative position on the charts after OMD that it held before OMD. The positions of the other two ASM titles are SO anomalous - it had never happened before, and there's no point of real comparison, but the top spot holding the same relative position as it did prior says a good deal of the story.

I was originally responding to someone who said that readers left due to OMIT and OMD, and while I won't deny that some did and some probably came, I just want proof that readers were lost at a significant amount if anyone's actually going to make that claim, just like I would want proof that readers came in because of OMIT and OMD if anyone's going to make that claim.

That the comics industry as a whole has been losing readers and ASM maintains its relative position on the charts would indicate that people leaving ASM are leaving it for the same reasons they're leaving everything else.

[Dog]

Am I strange for skipping the first arc and waiting for Spider-Slayers? I've never had any interest in the Hobgoblin.

[Jim Thompson]

I was originally responding to someone who said that readers left due to OMIT and OMD, and while I won't deny that some did and some probably came, I just want proof that readers were lost at a significant amount if anyone's actually going to make that claim, just like I would want proof that readers came in because of OMIT and OMD if anyone's going to make that claim.

Sure -- and there are those who countered that new readers came on board in great numbers due to OMD/BND -- so I think it's fair to ask for proof of that as well.

[Jim Thompson]

Am I strange for skipping the first arc and waiting for Spider-Slayers? I've never had any interest in the Hobgoblin.

That is strange.

[Duy]

Sure -- and there are those who countered that new readers came on board in great numbers due to OMD/BND -- so I think it's fair to ask for proof of that as well.

People have said that? Like who? No, seriously.

[Jim Thompson]

People have said that? Like who? No, seriously.

People have said people left the book in droves because of the change in direction? Like who? No, seriously.

[pedroparkero]

hangmanjury: wow you are opening a can of worms again..much debated in the previous thread...inviting all those anti-BND to post

as much as i enjoyed majority of the bnd...though I hated OMD, i remained open
about BND..

i couldnt deny the fact OMD really made some spidey collectors quit reading the hero all together.

that said..i hope all the anti-BND to try Dan Slott's Big Time.

Here's hoping his run be a great one...something all spidey fans can enjoy

[Jim Thompson]

hangmanjury: wow you are opening a can of worms again..much debated in the previous thread...inviting all those anti-BND to post

as much as i enjoyed majority of the bnd...though I hated OMD, i remained open
about BND..

i couldnt deny the fact OMD really made some spidey collectors quit reading the hero all together.

that said..i hope all the anti-BND to try Dan Slott's Big Time.

Here's hoping his run be a great one...something all spidey fans can enjoy

Which is really where I was when I started this thread. Big Time really does feel like a fresh start to me, which isn't a sense I got from BND. For whatever reason, Big Time feels like it's not encumbered with a lot unnecessary baggage, for me anyway.

[Karl Cook]

that said..i hope all the anti-BND to try Dan Slott's Big Time.

Although I've dropped ASM I don't consider myself to be "anti-BND".
However, I won't be picking up "Big Time"; purely and simply because it holds little to no interest for me.

[Duy]

People have said people left the book in droves because of the change in direction? Like who? No, seriously.

No need to be snide, dude. I was seriously asking a question since you're pretty much saying that I missed it. Here:

It'll get a big bump initially and then taper off to levels no higher than it was averaging before OMIT. Many, like me, will not buy it because of the price (I don't care about the extra pages, I'd rather have normal pages and $2.99)* and many will not buy it still out of protest over OMD / OMIT. Other than initial curiosity that any "event" book gets I don't see it winning back fans but it probably won't drive them away like OMD / OMIT did.

Now he didn't say it explicitly, but the implication is that a significant number of fans were driven away from the books. Consider: he mentions a big bump, meaning that after the bump, people will be going away. But not "like OMD / OMIT did."

With the implication being that OMD/OMIT drove away a significant number of readers, I would like to see some proof that it actually was OMD/OMIT that drove them away. If he didn't mean to imply that, then he can correct himself, yes?

[Kirayoshi]

What I want to know is, will the "Spider-Manifesto" be shredded now that BND is over?

I kinda hope so for one reason; Carlie Cooper. As long as the Manifesto is in place(with it's whole "Peter must always be the hard-luck loser" overtones), then Peter's newly-born relationship with Carlie was doomed before they even hooked up.

In Annie Hall, Woody Allen compared a relationship to a shark: "It has to constantly move forward or it will die." The Manifesto, IIRC, prevented that kind of forward momentum for any relationship Peter was involved with. Not to mention that kind of forward momentum was pretty much impossible with too many writers on at once, each one trying to push the story their own direction(not to mention making it difficult to peg down Carlie's personality as it tended to change slightly, depending on who was writing her).

Now that Dan Slott is guiding Peter's future for the next couple of years or so, hopefully we can allow Peter, his supporting cast, and his relationship with Carlie to progress. Only then will we see if they really do have potential as a couple. If the BND attitude was still hanging over their heads, their break-up would be inevitable, and there's really no reason for the reader(me) to become emotionally invested in them. If it's no longer in force, then they have a fighting chance. If it works out between them, great. If it doesn't, also great, so long as the story's well told.

Only time will tell if Carlie Cooper will become the next MJ Watson(the next great love of Peter's life), the next Gwen Stacy(potential great love cut short by tragedy), the next Black Cat(brief tempestuous fling that goes nowhere) or the next Deb Whitman(they try, it doesn't work, she leaves). As of now, I don't have enough information to make a guess.

The ball's in your court, Mr. Slott. Don't let us down.

[Duy]

Only time will tell if Carlie Cooper will become the next MJ Watson(the next great love of Peter's life), the next Gwen Stacy(potential great love cut short by tragedy), the next Black Cat(brief tempestuous fling that goes nowhere) or the next Deb Whitman(they try, it doesn't work, she leaves).

I would like the next significant other - be it Carlie or otherwise - to really be attempted to be at least as significant as the Black Cat, even if not Gwen or MJ. I just want the attempt made, before she becomes the next Debra Whitman.

[Jim Thompson]

No need to be snide, dude. I was seriously asking a question since you're pretty much saying that I missed it.

Well -- maybe there was a little reason to be snide.

And I'm not actually claiming you didn't understand something -- just saying I think you're concentrating on one side of an argument as opposed to all sides of an argument. And you've admitted you had to infer something from the original post to even get to that point.

[deathcry]

Well -- maybe there was a little reason to be snide.

And I'm not actually claiming you didn't understand something -- just saying I think you're concentrating on one side of an argument as opposed to all sides of an argument. And you've admitted you had to infer something from the original post to even get to that point.

No, really wasn't a reason to be snide because your supposition that he is looking at one side of the argument is incorrect. He asked about a sales drop. Arguing wheres the evidence of the opposite is not a valid response since that wasn't a part of the conversation.
I'd add besides his inference, many people here on the boards have stated they dropped ASM due to OMD and/or BND. I don't recall many stating the opposite (besides myself - though not because of either). But one response has nothing to do with the other.

[Mister Mets]

I don't know if it did or not -- but it seems if one wants cold, hard facts concerning one aspect of sales, then one ought to try to get all the cold hard facts about sales.

Hangmanjury's post was in response to a guy who claimed there was one significant reason sales weren't higher.

It'll get a big bump initially and then taper off to levels no higher than it was averaging before OMIT. Many, like me, will not buy it because of the price (I don't care about the extra pages, I'd rather have normal pages and $2.99)* and many will not buy it still out of protest over OMD / OMIT. Other than initial curiosity that any "event" book gets I don't see it winning back fans but it probably won't drive them away like OMD / OMIT did.

*Lest anyone try make points here, I've had this discussion already here. I know that at $3.99 and the extra pages it averages out to roughly the same price per page as a $2.99 book. And I know that $3.99 twice a month is cheaper than $2.99 three times a month. But regardless its still a $3.99 book which means for every copy purchased there are going to be $2.99 books that get dropped or not tried (I'm very bitter over the failure of Guardians and Nova to thrive and I blame their failure on the rise in price of other books which kept people from trying them out) and that is why I refuse to buy any $3.99 books.

As such, it's appropriate to ask for evidence on the matter.

If someone makes a comment about people who picked up the book up due to the changes that came about in OMD, then it's appropriate to ask for cold, hard facts.

What I want to know is, will the "Spider-Manifesto" be shredded now that BND is over?

I kinda hope so for one reason; Carlie Cooper. As long as the Manifesto is in place(with it's whole "Peter must always be the hard-luck loser" overtones), then Peter's newly-born relationship with Carlie was doomed before they even hooked up.

In Annie Hall, Woody Allen compared a relationship to a shark: "It has to constantly move forward or it will die." The Manifesto, IIRC, prevented that kind of forward momentum for any relationship Peter was involved with. Not to mention that kind of forward momentum was pretty much impossible with too many writers on at once, each one trying to push the story their own direction(not to mention making it difficult to peg down Carlie's personality as it tended to change slightly, depending on who was writing her).

Now that Dan Slott is guiding Peter's future for the next couple of years or so, hopefully we can allow Peter, his supporting cast, and his relationship with Carlie to progress. Only then will we see if they really do have potential as a couple. If the BND attitude was still hanging over their heads, their break-up would be inevitable, and there's really no reason for the reader(me) to become emotionally invested in them. If it's no longer in force, then they have a fighting chance. If it works out between them, great. If it doesn't, also great, so long as the story's well told.

Only time will tell if Carlie Cooper will become the next MJ Watson(the next great love of Peter's life), the next Gwen Stacy(potential great love cut short by tragedy), the next Black Cat(brief tempestuous fling that goes nowhere) or the next Deb Whitman(they try, it doesn't work, she leaves). As of now, I don't have enough information to make a guess.

The ball's in your court, Mr. Slott. Don't let us down.

I think comments about the manifesto (essentially a series of internal guidelines for the post OMD book) are exaggerated.