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  1. #1
    Mild-Mannered Reporter
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    Default CBR: NYCC LIVE: Women of Marvel

    The final day of New York Comic Con begins with the Women of Marvel panel, and CBR will be reporting live. Join Marjorie Liu, Colleen Coover, Christina Strain, and more for a lively discussion!


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    ShaunN
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    I think it's kind of telling that the picture accompanying this article has the Black Cat, Medusa, the Enchantress and a fourth woman (don't recognize her) dressed in bondage gear and posed as high-class prostitutes. While I certainly understand the need for sex appeal in female characters, the constant undermining of powerful women by presenting them as sex kittens doesn't send a particularly good message to anyone.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunN View Post
    I think it's kind of telling that the picture accompanying this article has the Black Cat, Medusa, the Enchantress and a fourth woman (don't recognize her) dressed in bondage gear and posed as high-class prostitutes.
    Personally I think it's more telling that you equate women in lingerie to "high class prostitutes".

    I'll say one thing about thsi article. ther person in it commenting on Archie comics is way off. Just because you might think one day "he should really just choose between one" doesnt mean you shoudl stop readin them. they are fun and entertaining, and dont need to be over analysed.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunN View Post
    I think it's kind of telling that the picture accompanying this article has the Black Cat, Medusa, the Enchantress and a fourth woman (don't recognize her) dressed in bondage gear and posed as high-class prostitutes. While I certainly understand the need for sex appeal in female characters, the constant undermining of powerful women by presenting them as sex kittens doesn't send a particularly good message to anyone.
    Amen to that brother. I think the 4th woman is the Scarlett Witch and for some strange reason the artist forgot to give her a top.
    Why must celebrating Marvel Women always lead to fanserivice? Marvel should take a que from DC when it comes to promoting their women. Why not a classy picture like the one Adam Hughes did a few years ago?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mundungus's Avatar
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    I'm taking a Psychology & Women class right now and I plan on doing my research paper on women and comics.

    It's interesting, the argument about displaying a woman's sexuality. We have people arguing that the image with Black Cat, Medusa, Scarlet Witch, and Enchantress is exploitative of women. It's a valid argument. But what's the flip? The four of them are covered from top to bottom so that no skin is exposed? Find a happy middle ground?

    Ultimately, it depends on context. The image is clearly a pin-up with no ties to any particular story or situation. It is meant to entice. Though, I agree at a panel for Women, it is weird to have the most prominent image be that one when I feel like it is more targeted at men. Though you could say it is suppose to make women feel sexy. I dunno. Just spitballing.

    What I do think is ridiculous is when female characters are depicted in garments in situations that just aren't practical. There is a cover for a recent Black Widow mini-series where she's standing on top of a roof holding a rifle in the middle of winter and the zipper is pulled down far enough to expose her cleavage and mid-drift. It just doesn't make sense given the context.

    I think we need to be more conscious of practicality and context. A character like She-Hulk can pull off a leotard in the heat of battle because she is invulnerable. Her skin isn't at risk to injury, so if she wants to she can run around like that. Other characters, not so much. Psylocke might be able to throw up psychic shields, but not if she's caught off guard, having exposed legs with no protection kind of sucks. Running around in a thong also sounds incredibly uncomfortable.

    Ultimately, I think my opinion means little because I don't think men should have a lot of standing in how women should portray or perceive themselves. We've been doing it for YEARS. I would much rather women fell comfortable and confident enough to say, "this is how I want to be represented, this is how I want to look, this is what I like," and we need to just deal. Equality is about everyone being who they want to be without designation or rank.

    Just some thoughts.

  6. #6
    Sitting Pretty Bricolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mundungus View Post
    Running around in a thong also sounds incredibly uncomfortable.
    It isn't as uncomfortable as you think.
    You want I should bop you with this lollipop?

  7. #7
    world of yesterday benday-dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathrazeem View Post
    Marvel should take a que from DC when it comes to promoting their women.
    So they can have them raped?

    Neither company has the moral highground here.

  8. #8
    I will wait... mimschkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunN View Post
    I think it's kind of telling that the picture accompanying this article has the Black Cat, Medusa, the Enchantress and a fourth woman (don't recognize her) dressed in bondage gear and posed as high-class prostitutes. While I certainly understand the need for sex appeal in female characters, the constant undermining of powerful women by presenting them as sex kittens doesn't send a particularly good message to anyone.
    Exactly what I was thinking the moment the page loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mundungus View Post
    I'm taking a Psychology & Women class right now and I plan on doing my research paper on women and comics.

    It's interesting, the argument about displaying a woman's sexuality. We have people arguing that the image with Black Cat, Medusa, Scarlet Witch, and Enchantress is exploitative of women. It's a valid argument. But what's the flip? The four of them are covered from top to bottom so that no skin is exposed? Find a happy middle ground?

    Ultimately, it depends on context. The image is clearly a pin-up with no ties to any particular story or situation. It is meant to entice. Though, I agree at a panel for Women, it is weird to have the most prominent image be that one when I feel like it is more targeted at men. Though you could say it is suppose to make women feel sexy. I dunno. Just spitballing.

    What I do think is ridiculous is when female characters are depicted in garments in situations that just aren't practical. There is a cover for a recent Black Widow mini-series where she's standing on top of a roof holding a rifle in the middle of winter and the zipper is pulled down far enough to expose her cleavage and mid-drift. It just doesn't make sense given the context.

    I think we need to be more conscious of practicality and context. A character like She-Hulk can pull off a leotard in the heat of battle because she is invulnerable. Her skin isn't at risk to injury, so if she wants to she can run around like that. Other characters, not so much. Psylocke might be able to throw up psychic shields, but not if she's caught off guard, having exposed legs with no protection kind of sucks. Running around in a thong also sounds incredibly uncomfortable.

    Ultimately, I think my opinion means little because I don't think men should have a lot of standing in how women should portray or perceive themselves. We've been doing it for YEARS. I would much rather women fell comfortable and confident enough to say, "this is how I want to be represented, this is how I want to look, this is what I like," and we need to just deal. Equality is about everyone being who they want to be without designation or rank.

    Just some thoughts.
    I'm really not sure that the flip-side to skimpy outfits would be so bad. I'm not suggesting that characters should never show off skin, or dress in frumpy ponchos or burkhas (far, far from it in fact), but if it's possible to make male characters look attractive in full body suits, why not make it so for female characters? Somebody else posted this example on another site and I thought it illustrated this point quite nicely:

    Psylocke here, is wearing virtually nothing, whereas Rogue is completely covered from head to foot. And yet, Rogue is no less attractive than Psylocke (personally I prefer the Rogue image because that's just my taste).


    I think we need to move away from the idea that nudity = the epitome of atteraction.

    And of course the practicality issue is grating.

    Also, I'm not trying to grasp at straws or anything but the comments about how it's better to introduce women to continuity-light comics, as well as manga and indie comics was bothersome. Surely it would be appropriate to introduce ANY new reader to something that's not weighed down with continuity? Plus the idea that manga is a sort of go-to "genre" for girls. Personally, I'd rather read Thor #603 than a book like Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, which makes me shudder. I started out reading Batman and Hellboy, which are by no means "girl comics", I'm just surprised at the comics that these creators have suggested as if there's some sort of categorical difference between what is appropriate for women to get interested in comics and what's right for men.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on one, just sort of happened
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mundungus View Post
    It's interesting, the argument about displaying a woman's sexuality. We have people arguing that the image with Black Cat, Medusa, Scarlet Witch, and Enchantress is exploitative of women. It's a valid argument. But what's the flip? The four of them are covered from top to bottom so that no skin is exposed? Find a happy middle ground?

    Ultimately, it depends on context. The image is clearly a pin-up with no ties to any particular story or situation. It is meant to entice. Though, I agree at a panel for Women, it is weird to have the most prominent image be that one when I feel like it is more targeted at men. Though you could say it is suppose to make women feel sexy. I dunno. Just spitballing.
    Yeah. Personally, it's a fine pin-up, though if the Scarlet Witch were easier to recognize (if that is the Scarlet Witch) it would be improved. It was drawn by a woman, so I understand on that level why it's being featured, and it's also the cover of the upcoming Women of Marvel anthology. That said, I don't think we'd ever see a bunch of males dressed in skimpy show-tune clothes on the cover of, well, anything that wasn't a joke.

    I probably would have tried to go in a different direction with the cover for a "Women of Marvel" anthology.

    I also wish this panel discussed more upcoming releases and plot points featuring various Marvel characters, instead of how to get your girlfriend to read comics. Though, I guess I do see the point of a panel where women creators talk about their experience in the industry.

  10. #10
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    I didnt read the article but..... is that an image from something Marvel is going to do or some randomy stuff CBR decided to plaster in?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by benday-dot View Post
    So they can have them raped?

    Neither company has the moral highground here.
    in general I'd say your right. But compare this pic to Adam Hughes Women of DC pic a few years ago.



    Classy is it not?

  12. #12
    Harley Licks Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    What I learned from this panel
    Things that appeal to women in comics
    1.Drama(something with a romantic origin)
    2.Social interaction
    3.Light continuity

    So basically its guaranteed that any project involving a female character will have to be a one shot thats out of continuity to be successful.
    Currrently Reading- Suicide Squad,Justice League,Batwoman,Batman,Batman and Robin,Detective Comics, Wonder Woman,Batman Eternal,Mighty Avengers,All new X-factor,Justice League 3000 and Harley Quinn

  13. #13

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    I would have asked the woman's panel why they think Married characters are rejected by a large number of male readers. And could it be, marriage denotes a partnership...as equals..and this is why marriage is frowned upon.
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  14. #14
    ManBearPig TimberBear's Avatar
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    i kinda thought it might be satana, considering the inverted star on the "costume"...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sighphi View Post
    I didnt read the article but..... is that an image from something Marvel is going to do or some randomy stuff CBR decided to plaster in?
    It's the cover of "Women of Marvel #1" an upcoming anthology featuring new stories.

    And yeah, I'd say it's likely the image is of Satanna, because she's supposed to be appearing in one of the stories.

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