Has Superman ever beaten Batman?

[DiceRoll]

Just a thought I had browsing some rumble topics. It sounds like every time they fight Bat pulls off a win. I just wanna know if the reverse has happened?

[a13506]

Omac Project/Countdown to Infinite Crisis. He literally beat Bats to unconsciousness.

[Castel]

Speaking of :

[froinlaven]

Speaking of :

LOL! That's basically what it would boil down to everytime minus the fanboyism.

[Jimmy Bond]

In Sacrifice he smacks him away. In For Tomorrow, he puts him in his place, and threatens to break his face.

I think the perception that Batman always beats Superman is a misconception. Even in DKR and Hush, they made it clear Superman was the reason why Batman wasn't killed.

[Mainline]

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel is another occasion (Batman bring Kryptonite as prep... Superman sees it from afar with his vision, blows it away from Batman, and speed blitzes Batman).

Superman: Red Son is also, roughly, speaking a Superman victory in absolute terms (Batman dies, Superman lives, and Batman's intentions are foiled by the strength of Superman's ties/relationships... having WW so loyal to him that she's willing to break herself for him).

Deconstructing DKR there's a strong undercurrent of a staged fight.

Superman in orbit when he burns into the ground "WHERE?" in front of Batman in order to plan their public fight. If Superman was on a mission to kill it would have been over right then. Then after fighting missiles and a tank, Superman rips Batman's armor off like it's paper while he's tethered to a lamp-post... he doesn't just pinch the cable, slice it with heat vision, or carry Batman beyond its range. They have a nice public brawl for Clark's overseers. Ollie then helps. At which point Superman stops fighting- not because he's weakened, but because Bruce is... "Bruce your heart!" When the faux battle is over, Batman is dead and Supes is the one over him. How does getting a few punches in (only after third party help) without KOing your opponent and dying (against someone who was holding back) constitute winning?

In the epilogue, Clark knows Bruce is alive and underground and doesn't just dig him up right then and there... so, at best, the whole scenario is a psychological win... but only for one particular Superman who thinks in one particular way (versus, say the Batman in the above tales who uses a plan not too distant from what our Batman might do).

All that said... a picture is worth a thousand words and somehow the image of Batman punching Superman triumphs despite the context of that panel.

[Darth Joker]

Superman vs. Batman is basically Superman vs. Lex Luthor (without the green/purple metal suit).

It all comes down to whether or not Supes' foe gets the kryptonite out in time or not. Not always does simply bringing kryptonite work; sometimes Supes spots the move coming in time.

[Mat001]

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel is another occasion (Batman bring Kryptonite as prep... Superman sees it from afar with his vision, blows it away from Batman, and speed blitzes Batman).

Superman: Red Son is also, roughly, speaking a Superman victory in absolute terms (Batman dies, Superman lives, and Batman's intentions are foiled by the strength of Superman's ties/relationships... having WW so loyal to him that she's willing to break herself for him).

Deconstructing DKR there's a strong undercurrent of a staged fight.

Superman in orbit when he burns into the ground "WHERE?" in front of Batman in order to plan their public fight. If Superman was on a mission to kill it would have been over right then. Then after fighting missiles and a tank, Superman rips Batman's armor off like it's paper while he's tethered to a lamp-post... he doesn't just pinch the cable, slice it with heat vision, or carry Batman beyond its range. They have a nice public brawl for Clark's overseers. Ollie then helps. At which point Superman stops fighting- not because he's weakened, but because Bruce is... "Bruce your heart!" When the faux battle is over, Batman is dead and Supes is the one over him. How does getting a few punches in (only after third party help) without KOing your opponent and dying (against someone who was holding back) constitute winning?

In the epilogue, Clark knows Bruce is alive and underground and doesn't just dig him up right then and there... so, at best, the whole scenario is a psychological win... but only for one particular Superman who thinks in one particular way (versus, say the Batman in the above tales who uses a plan not too distant from what our Batman might do).

All that said... a picture is worth a thousand words and somehow the image of Batman punching Superman triumphs despite the context of that panel.

That's fine if you ignore the narration caption boxes where Bruce and Clark actually sound like they're trying to stop each other. The fight was staged on Bruce's part, but not Clark's. Bruce knew that his time had come and that it was best to let Batman die a public death. Clark didn't know Bruce was doing this until he saw Carrie trying to disguise herself and then heard Bruce's heart start beating again. He let him go out of loyalty to him, proving that he wasn't a government stooge if he let him go.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Speaking of :

[Jordanstine]

NOPE.

Most recent Superman vs Batman story (Issue #39)...

Link with Pics:
Superman couldn't even KILL Batman with a direct super blow.

^ Btw, if you look through the other pages of that thread, there are a lot more examples including one Incredible Hulk himself who couldn't kill Batman either.

Oh there it is... Page 3.

...

And here's one with Batman being able to survive a blow by a possessed Wonder Woman too!

[Castel]

Haha, there is some really funny stuff in those links.

Funny and kind of laughable too in the same time. (Batman can take more punishment than Superman, isn't that great ? )

[Mainline]

That's fine if you ignore the narration caption boxes where Bruce and Clark actually sound like they're trying to stop each other. The fight was staged on Bruce's part, but not Clark's. Bruce knew that his time had come and that it was best to let Batman die a public death. Clark didn't know Bruce was doing this until he saw Carrie trying to disguise herself and then heard Bruce's heart start beating again. He let him go out of loyalty to him, proving that he wasn't a government stooge if he let him go.

Disagree. If you read it as choreography then Batman is narrating both the spectacle for the show's sake and his own internal ideological issues with Superman... and Superman's narration is all "how far are we going to take this show" type commentary.

If Superman was entirely ignorant of Batman's plan, genuinely wanted to take Batman down, and had no desire to hurt Batman except to serve the show (again, his internal narration all about limiting damage to Batman) then the story hasn't given us any reason why he didn't just speed-blitz and throw Bruce in a padded cell, knee cap him from space with a heat beam to heal from, simply unplug Bruce from the power grid, or dig Bruce up at the end.

[Mainline]

NOPE.
Link with Pics:
Superman couldn't even KILL Batman with a direct super blow.[/size]

The thread and the rationalization is a major overreaction to a fairly standard fictional trope. Simply, that heroes don't die. It's less true in modern comics, sure, but as a rule the hero doesn't die.

Writers or artists might get sloppy about the punishment in play but they're not paid to do things with an eye for things fans foolishly over-inflate in their importance (as Rumblers tend to do) of- essentially- filler to the status of "feats".

Taking blows from tanks, as a rule, is not unique to Batman... but we don't go around assigning them all concussion resistance or whatever power necessary to justify the outcome. We just accept it as a trope. Consider the cast of Smallville:

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/t...ville-knockout

Half of them have been concussed over 30 times, sufficient to create memory alterations and unconsciousness, and they're all [arguably] fine not suffering from brain damage. But it's just a trope.

Unless or until you get something like narration or commentary by the writer expressly stating that Batman has some ability above and beyond enabling him to take brick hits.

[Mat001]

Disagree. If you read it as choreography then Batman is narrating both the spectacle for the show's sake and his own internal ideological issues with Superman... and Superman's narration is all "how far are we going to take this show" type commentary.

If Superman was entirely ignorant of Batman's plan, genuinely wanted to take Batman down, and had no desire to hurt Batman except to serve the show (again, his internal narration all about limiting damage to Batman) then the story hasn't given us any reason why he didn't just speed-blitz and throw Bruce in a padded cell, knee cap him from space with a heat beam to heal from, simply unplug Bruce from the power grid, or dig Bruce up at the end.

You can ask why doesn't Superman speed blitz all of his enemies? He doesn't because the story is over in two seconds. It's not choreography. It's a legit fight between the two of them. Superman doesn't want to hurt Batman, because he knows that he could kill him in one blow. And because of this, Bruce is using his moral compass against him. The narration is in their head. Not a choregraphed fight.

As I mentioned, Clark and Bruce are friends. Even though they're on the opposite sides in this affair, at the end of the day, they're still friends and Clark reaffirmed that by not digging Bruce up and putting him in a cell. That's why Bruce's final narration has him say that he mistimmed the dosage as his heart started beating before Clark left the cemetary. And that he wasn't going to go after Bruce, because he was doing exactly what he should've done, which is go to ground. Clark was upset that Bruce came out of retirement and went public again. By cleaning up Gotham and retiring Batman, Bruce could continue his crusade outside of Gotham. That Batman's time had passed and it was up to the new generation, with him as the general operating in private, to continue the war. This is why Miller's later Batman stories have Bruce reference Clark as an idiot.

[Mainline]

It's a legit fight between the two of them. Superman doesn't want to hurt Batman, because he knows that he could kill him in one blow.

These are at odds because if he had a ton of non-lethal options... engaging Batman from afar, speed, surprise (why a "WHERE?" for a duel?)... everything was a show. If he didn't want Bruce hurt he could have scooped up the old man without his armor and ended it right then.

All of Bruce's narration is how this looks to others and commentary on how he feels about them (Ollie, Clark, the gov't, etc)... all of Clark's commentary is "How much longer is this going to go?"

In any case, irrespective of interpretation, getting in a few punches and dying on top of your opponent doesn't constitute a win... and if people are going to start broadly interpreting "win" as something more esoteric like "moral victory" or "strategic victory" then we venture into stupid comparison territory where one could start saying, "Yeah, well Superman wins a life better... he's married, professionally respected, etc." to nonsensical extremes. When you're dead on the ground and your opponent is mourning over your body that's not a win.