Bleach Manga/Anime Discussion Thread II

[MKTerra]

Quincies are now this close to officially being Nazi Vampires.

[master of read]

I think that he throws them some vanilla coke after successful missions.

better yet...

aizen: excellent my espada. now, for your rewards, we are going to chuck E. cheese's.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Whatever else, Juhabach was definitely directly responsible for the death of Ishida's mom.

Also, IIRC, the only person we saw who said that the Quinceys were slaughtered by Shinigami was Ishida, and he ddidn't even know his dad was a practicing Quincy, and we know for a fact that there are an assload more Quinceys still out there so he was clearly wrong to some degree. All we know conclusively is that Shini-Mengele tortured some number of Quinceys in the name of GHOST SCIENCE, and that whoever he did all that to probably went back into the circle of reincarnation, which means its still arguably much less heinous than the most basic aspect of Quincyness.

Also:

Ryuken - Boy... Since when did you join Juhabach? Don't you realize he caused your mother's death?

Ishida - Do not underestimate me, father. Of course I knew that before I joined. He simply gave me an offer that let me go past my own personal issues with them, for a greater cause.

Ryuken - What could he possibly have said to make you forgive him for killing Katagiri!?

Ishida - He said I could design their new uniforms! *twirls around*

Ryuken - ...

Ishida - So, what do you think? Be honest.

Ryuken - ...I think that it was a mistake to let you wear your mother's old maid costume for Halloween when you were six.

[Hazard]

Quincies are now this close to officially being Jew Nazi Vampires.

Edited for accuracy.



What?

It's true.

[Iron_twister]

As far as I'm concerned, the vandenreich are pretty straight up brutal, and shouldn't really be considered Quincys as a whole (if we did that, then Soken and Ryuken should have joined that bandwagon and they're decent people...I mean the latter's an aloof jerk at times but he isn't blowing up Shinigami to pieces).

I mean they (plus Uryu) even agreed that the shinigami's reasons were kind of true and Soken offered an alternative but was denied because admittedly, it's a noble plan but its just not as realistic.

So yeah...I would say that the vandenreich are not the "noble Quincys" we should cheer for the "evil Shinigami" because they are far from being the Quincys we've seen earlier in the series, who are good people, and the shinigami at least will admit to their mistakes as well as trying to prevent another event such as that.

And before anyone mentions Soken's torture...It's Mayuri we're talking about, a man who has done a lot of questionable actions for Soul Society even behind Yamamoto's back if he has to.

[Holy Spirit]

Well, I would say that..... the Vandenreich are evil.

From what we've been told the quincy were given substantinal warnings before the shinigami were forced to take greater actions. But they still didn't stop unbalancing the world and needed to be put down. I'm not saying that what the shinigami did was good or right, they made a decision they felt was necessary for the good of the world. That last part, "the good of the world"-part. The Vandenreich don't have that. They're not trying to kill the shinigami to improve the situation for anybody.

True, but that's the thing... they had that, once. They already tried their hand at killing to save the lives of others and ultimately... were rewarded with genocide. Devoting themselves in the name of helping... nearly cost them everything.

They learned from the experience but paid attention to the wrong lesson. Now they don't care about anything but their own desires, and since the genocide left them bitter, angry and hateful what they desire is sweet satisfaction. They're essentially ruled by their emotions... they were back then, and they are right now. (Which is why I have a hard time with Masaki's attitude... but I digress.)

They just want revenge for the genocide. Understandable but still wrong, revenge is generally considered wrong and as we all know "two wrongs don't make a right". That's why I like the Vandenreich as villains. They don't BS around why they're doing what they're doing. They don't care about the rest of the world, they're not bothered by whose life they ruin, they just want to hurt the people that hurt them. They've been preparing for 200 years to get their revenge and that's all there is to it.

I also like them. I liked Aizen because of his personality and powers... but I always felt his motivation left something to be desired. "Nobody sits atop the heavens... so... I'll do it."

I mean, I guess that works but... I can't really identify with it as enough motivation for all the trouble Aizen went through just to play God. His drive was kind of...... baffling to me.


Juhabach on the other hand..... I understand his drive.

[Sound Silence]

Well, I would say that..... the Vandenreich are evil.

True, but that's the thing... they had that, once. They already tried their hand at killing to save the lives of others and ultimately... were rewarded with genocide. Devoting themselves in the name of helping... nearly cost them everything.

They learned from the experience but paid attention to the wrong lesson. Now they don't care about anything but their own desires, and since the genocide left them bitter, angry and hateful what they desire is sweet satisfaction. They're essentially ruled by their emotions... they were back then, and they are right now. (Which is why I have a hard time with Masaki's attitude... but I digress.)

I also like them. I liked Aizen because of his personality and powers... but I always felt his motivation left something to be desired. "Nobody sits atop the heavens... so... I'll do it."

I mean, I guess that works but... I can't really identify with it as enough motivation for all the trouble Aizen went through just to play God. His drive was kind of...... baffling to me.


Juhabach on the other hand..... I understand his drive.

We don't really understand his drive though. For instance, we don't know why he started the Quincies (or how he was even able to). We don't know what happened a thousand years ago or why he and Yamamoto fought. The quincy genocide came after all that.

[Robotech Master]

"Nobody sits atop the heavens... so... I'll do it."

We haven't heard the whole story on that yet though (classic Kubo). It was implied that his desire to sit atop the heavens was to dethrone the Spirit King because knowing the truth of "it" made serving it insulting or otherwise bad somehow.

[chilled monkey]

Chapter 537 was AWESOME!

A few thoughts:

1) YES! Katagiri is Uryu's mother! I know we had all figured that out but it's nice to get confirmation. Plus we now know her maiden name.

2) While not flat-out stated, its strongly hinted that Ryuken did love Katagiri (since he still has her picture).

3) If she did have some kind of illness/health issue, then that explains the scene from ep 71 in the Bount Arc (yes I know, not in the manga. I like to at least try and get scenes like this to fit). She could have been sad as she knew there was a good chance she wouldn't live long enough to see her son grow up. Perhaps that was why Ryuken became a docter.

4) Juha Bach has now crossed the line from being a villain to being a complete monster.

5) Who else thinks Uryu is planning to pull a Von Stauffenberg?

6) Good to see Ikumi again.

[Ghost]

First we don't know how many people Juha killed or that he directly killed them. He certainly didn't slaughter them like the Shinigami did.

a lesser evil in service of the greater good.

More like the service of himself.

I mean, he doesn't need to be a Yamamoto-level badass just to lead the Wandenriech. Dude just wanted to be able to blast people's heads off if they annoyed him.

So far the Vandenreich are pretty clearly painted up as evil.

Juhabach kills subordinates indiscriminately for the pettiest of reasons, and he seems to really enjoy doing it.

To be absolutely fair, we've only seen him treat his Arrancar slave-soldiers that way, which makes sense given how the Quincy feel about Hollows.

Aside from powerjacking some of them to regain his personal strenght, I'm pretty sure we've never seen Juhabach mistreat his human followers.

[Dark Soul # 7]

To be absolutely fair, we've only seen him treat his Arrancar slave-soldiers that way, which makes sense given how the Quincy feel about Hollows.

Aside from powerjacking some of them to regain his personal strenght, I'm pretty sure we've never seen Juhabach mistreat his human followers.

Give it time. Dude doesn't exactly seem to care all that much about his quincy subordinates either. He outright mocked the three that tried to help him against Yamamoto as they were consumed by flames. Yes, that was one of the twins posing as Juhabach, but their power is that they become the person they're imitating, though with limited abilities if the original is that much more power ful than them.

So I'm pretty sure that the day will come when he blows off the head of a Stern Ritter because... I don't know... they pronounced a word a certain way and Bach didn't like it.