Bleach Manga/Anime Discussion Thread II

[Ghost]

Now that this one battle has brought back Kenny's original mojo, what's to guarantee he wont relapse and subconsciously store it all away again when fighting weaker foes?

If I understood Unohana's internal monologue correctly, it was more a habit he got into because when he fought her the first time, he was so happy to find a worthy opponent he became scared that if he killed her he would never find anyone like her again. This whole fight was a kind of therapy to reset him to the way he used to be.

Anyway, it seems to mostly be something he does with higher level opponents like Ichigo and Nnoitra. Sometimes he does really murder his opponent full stop, like in the case of Giriko.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Now that this one battle has brought back Kenny's original mojo, what's to guarantee he wont relapse and subconsciously bury it again when fighting weaker foes?

he's aware of the difference between before hand and now. Makes me wonder though about Tousen and his rant that Kenpachi killed his master. Who was this unnamed man/woman? When Did Unohaha stop being Kenpachi?

[Dark Soul # 7]

he's aware of the difference between before hand and now. Makes me wonder though about Tousen and his rant that Kenpachi killed his master. Who was this unnamed man/woman? When Did Unohaha stop being Kenpachi?

Presumably when she first encountered the young Zaraki. Or at least that's probably when she decided that he fit the title better than she did.

Now for something a bit less relevant. Where does this fight put Unohana featwise? The best I can think is that she's got the attack power to one-shot Kenpachi, compared to him kind of shrugging off Nnoitra's and Yammy's best shots.

[Siriel]

compared to him kind of shrugging off Nnoitra's and Yammy's best shots.

He was in the process of dying against Nnoitra though. It's not 'shrugging off' if you'd die from taking a few more hits.

[Dark Soul # 7]

He was in the process of dying against Nnoitra though. It's not 'shrugging off' if you'd die from taking a few more hits.

True. I should say, surviving, staying in one piece and enjoying getting hit by Nnoitra's super-strong slashes, compared to just constantly dying agains Unohana.

[kane]

Now for something a bit less relevant. Where does this fight put Unohana featwise? The best I can think is that she's got the attack power to one-shot Kenpachi, compared to him kind of shrugging off Nnoitra's and Yammy's best shots.

I do not know if we can make comparisons here. Kenpachi`s power level is very inconsistant, depending on his mood etc. He seemed weaker to me in the fight against her, probably due to some psychological block.

[kane]

I would really like to see a rematch between Ichigo and Kenpachi, both at the hight of their power, maybe at the end of the manga, where their developement should be finished. It would probably destroy half of soul society, though.

[Jacksane19]

I do not know if we can make comparisons here. Kenpachi`s power level is very inconsistant, depending on his mood etc. He seemed weaker to me in the fight against her, probably due to some psychological block.

Except Unohana said he's been getting stronger since fighting Ichigo, and by killing her he has 'surpassed' her. So he should be as strong as he's ever been. But Unohana still seemingly killed and revived him numerous times until his psych block was completely removed and thus he could kill her. Still, we have no way of knowing who she could or couldn't beat other than by implication. She should be stronger than Ichigo or Kyoraku. Kyoraku managed to kill (with help) Starrk, so Unohana could probably beat him. Barragan's got hax ability and we don't know Retsu's bankai well enough to say if it would even affect him, so thats unknown. She could probably curb-stomp Harribel based on the latter's fight ending from a single slash from Aizen. Ulquiorra never fought anyone but Ichigo, who only beat him by going Full Hollow, which we only know is crazy strong. Retsu is definitely weaker than Genryusai and Aizen, but other than that, we have no way of knowing.

[kane]

Except Unohana said he's been getting stronger since fighting Ichigo, and by killing her he has 'surpassed' her. So he should be as strong as he's ever been. But Unohana still seemingly killed and revived him numerous times until his psych block was completely removed and thus he could kill her. Still, we have no way of knowing who she could or couldn't beat other than by implication. She should be stronger than Ichigo or Kyoraku. Kyoraku managed to kill (with help) Starrk, so Unohana could probably beat him. Barragan's got hax ability and we don't know Retsu's bankai well enough to say if it would even affect him, so thats unknown. She could probably curb-stomp Harribel based on the latter's fight ending from a single slash from Aizen. Ulquiorra never fought anyone but Ichigo, who only beat him by going Full Hollow, which we only know is crazy strong. Retsu is definitely weaker than Genryusai and Aizen, but other than that, we have no way of knowing.

She has no feats to indicate that she is (or was) stronger than Ichigo, Kyoraku or anyone else you mentioned. Her only feat so far is fighting with Kenpachi, who`s power level is very inconsistant and who`s best feat so far is killing Noitra (I do not count Yammi, because it happend off-screen and he fought him together with Byakuya). We have no feats for her power output, for her speed etc. or that she would be able to beat Kyoraku (who`s bankai we have not seen yet) at his games.

[Siriel]

She should be stronger than Ichigo or Kyoraku. Kyoraku managed to kill (with help) Starrk, so Unohana could probably beat him.

Not going into Rumbles logic but...based on what?

Starrk is a guy that was smacking down two masked Visored while taking the time to explain that they should totally surrender or run away and that he wouldn't pursue, only dying because Kyoraku backstabbed him while he was in the middle of generously offering said opportunity.

I'm honestly really wondering how you could say that Unohana could beat him based on that. Not even going by feats or anything, just...what is it that makes you feel she could take Starrk?

[Ghost]

The thing about Unohana is that so far we've only seen her excel at healing and zanjutsu. (Plus a kinda confusing bankai.) We don't know if her shikai can be used offensively, how fast her shunpo is, how good she is at non-healing kido, over-all durability, etc

She may very well be the best swordfighter in Soul Society if not the whole manga, but other characters have a lot more firepower and/or esoteric abilities, are faster, more physically powerful and so on. It's a bit hard to say exactly where she ranks.

[Jacksane19]

She has no feats to indicate that she is (or was) stronger than Ichigo, Kyoraku or anyone else you mentioned. Her only feat so far is fighting with Kenpachi, who`s power level is very inconsistant and who`s best feat so far is killing Noitra (I do not count Yammi, because it happend off-screen and he fought him together with Byakuya). We have no feats for her power output, for her speed etc. or that she would be able to beat Kyoraku (who`s bankai we have not seen yet) at his games.

I was going by general implications (seated officers being more afraid of dying at Unohana's hands than Genryusai, her Battle Data Score (540 vs Kyoraku's 530), and the fact that she's been around long enough to know the members of Squad Zero and was probably part of the original, more vicious Gotei 13. I'm not going to claim to have hard evidence to support any judgment, I'm just make estimations based on what information is available. Ichigo essentially tied his fights with Zaraki and Byakuya, both of whom are generally considered mid-tier Captains (compared to Unohana, Genryusai, Ukitake, and Kyoraku as the Upper-tier). Granted, Zaraki doesn't have a lot of great feats, but we do know that Genryusai stopped training him after one day for fear of how powerful he would become. Kyoraku's games are interesting, but if anyone left in SS knows Kyoraku's fighting style other than Ukitake, it would be Unohana. She's been around longer than them and was a Captain when they were in training. I think Kyoraku was made Captain-Commander because Unohana couldn't juggle that, plus the 4th Squad, and it's easier to find a Captain for squad 8 than a Captain for Squad 4. Kyoraku could possibly be stronger, but if anything his feats are worse than Zaraki's. All he's ever done is one-shot Chad and kill Stark with a sneak attack when the guy was focused on two other opponents.

[The Transient Guest]

Awesome, response coming once I'm done watching D Gray Man.

Edit: One thing I do want to point out right quick, you mention Ichigo and Kenny tying. Ichigo when at 1/3 or so reiatsu was still packing enough heat for Unohana to think he was at a captain's level and full tank.

[Nik Hasta]

The thing about Unohana is that so far we've only seen her excel at healing and zanjutsu. (Plus a kinda confusing bankai.) We don't know if her shikai can be used offensively, how fast her shunpo is, how good she is at non-healing kido, over-all durability, etc

She may very well be the best swordfighter in Soul Society if not the whole manga, but other characters have a lot more firepower and/or esoteric abilities, are faster, more physically powerful and so on. It's a bit hard to say exactly where she ranks.

Databooks, yeah I know but bear with me, say that she's literally Aizen's equal.

[Mormel]

Awesome, response coming once I'm done watching D Gray Man.

Edit: One thing I do want to point out right quick, you mention Ichigo and Kenny tying. Ichigo when at 1/3 or so reiatsu was still packing enough heat for Unohana to think he was at a captain's level and full tank.

At that point he had had a couple of upgrades since last battling Kenpachi, most notably his training with the Visoreds and his latest Hollow transformation during the battle with Ulquiorra immediately prior to Unohana meeting up with him just then.