Bleach Manga/Anime Discussion Thread II

[The Drunkard Kid]

"Hey, guy who took down Grimmjow, Ulquiorra and Aizen! We got no beef with you so you can go and hide while our lieutenant stomping guy freaks out. Hey, Sun Sun, Mila Rose, why is that guy laughing. Stop laughing, guy who is insanely out of our league!"

[Dark Soul # 7]

"Hey, guy who took down Grimmjow, Ulquiorra and Aizen! We got no beef with you so you can go and hide while our lieutenant stomping guy freaks out. Hey, Sun Sun, Mila Rose, why is that guy laughing. Stop laughing, guy who is insanely out of our league!"

Ichigo: I have no idea who you guys are. And how the hell did you figure out that you can create a giant monster thing by throwing your left arms together? That seems kind of random.

[Holy Spirit]

"Both sides are just."

What? No, that's bullshit. All that I got from the story time of not-Aizen is that Quincies are self-righteous asshats who can't be reasoned with. Seriously SS aren't exactly boy-scouts themselves but I'm with them on this one.

I'm inclined to agree with you but......

I think there's an implied, "in their eyes," in there.

...... perception is a funny thing sometimes.

I wonder if the Quincies actually believed what the soul reapers were telling them.



There is a little girl running for her life from a hollow...... and you have the power to stop it. Kill the creature. Save a life. Easy. You do it.


Then along comes a random soul reaper that was previously nowhere to be found.... and he tells you that you're wrong to do so. He says that you are creating an imbalance in the world.


You look at the sky... you look at the trees.... you look at the earth.... trying to sense this imbalance of which they speak.(I'm assuming they can't sense it, work with me.) You get nothing. You have only his word to take for it.....


You're supposed to not protect the people right in front of you that are begging for help..... because...... a guy said it's damaging to the world in a very abstract sort of way. Meanwhile you have been doing this for years.... as have you're father... and you're father's father and somehow the world hasn't come tumbling down. But you're just supposed to take his word for it? A guy who is saying that in spite of your intentions... you're essentially more dangerous than the very hollows you're trying to protect the people from. Yeah....... problems.


All I'm saying is, if the Quincies truly can't sense this imbalance........... then I can totally see where they are coming from.

[The Transient Guest]

You're walking down the street...you see a little barrel...you kick it over because hey, you've got feet so why not.

A man runs up with a Geiger counter and tells you that kicking over the barrels is spilling the substance in them which is really poisonous to the environment.

You look around....you see the trees....the ground....you don't feel bad.....

Well hell, you rationalize, if there's no obvious and immediate side effects then there's no side effects at all!

~Years and several thousand kicked over barrels later~

Those guys with the Geiger counters have been killing my family because we kick over barrels while making the crazy claim that kicking barrels is destroying the Universe......TIME TO KICK OVER MORE BARRELS!

[Holy Spirit]

You're walking down the street...you see a little barrel...you kick it over because hey, you've got feet so why not.

A man runs up with a Geiger counter and tells you that kicking over the barrels is spilling the substance in them which is really poisonous to the environment.

You look around....you see the trees....the ground....you don't feel bad.....

Well hell, you rationalize, if there's no obvious and immediate side effects then there's no side effects at all!

~Years and several thousand kicked over barrels later~

Those guys with the Geiger counters have been killing my family because we kick over barrels while making the crazy claim that kicking barrels is destroying the Universe......TIME TO KICK OVER MORE BARRELS!

Ok, so... those situations are different.


Are you saying you don't understand where the Qunicy are coming from?

[Robotech Master]

...... prescription is a funny thing sometimes.

I believe you're looking for "Perspective" or "Perception" here. Unless you're talking about prescribing law/rules.

...or doctor's orders.

"You there, Quincy! Take two of these and call me in the morning!"

[Holy Spirit]

I believe you're looking for "Perspective" or "Perception" here.

Yep, totally.

[The Transient Guest]

Ok, so... those situations are different.


Are you saying you don't understand where the Qunicy are coming from?

Are you saying you don't understand why it's stupid to not take the advice of someone that has more knowledge on the subject than you do?

[Holy Spirit]

Are you saying you don't understand why it's stupid to not take the advice of someone that has more knowledge on the subject than you do?

I..... asked you first.

[Robotech Master]

I..... asked you first.

His analogy implies that he sees the Quincies as people who may not have had the ability to foresee/sense that their actions were harmful, but are nonetheless guilty of ignoring warnings from someone who appears to be an authority on the subject. That your inability to substantiate it on your own does not condone continuing to do something that will have dire consequences, according to someone more knowledgeable on the subject than you are. He understands where they are coming from, but doesn't think it was ever a good decision on their part.

[Holy Spirit]

His analogy implies that he sees the Quincies as people who may not have had the ability to foresee/sense that their actions were harmful, but are nonetheless guilty of ignoring warnings from someone who appears to be an authority on the subject. That your inability to substantiate it on your own does not condone continuing to do something that will have dire consequences, according to someone more knowledgeable on the subject than you are. He understands where they are coming from, but doesn't think it was ever a good decision on their part.

If that is so, then that's all he had to say.

As I said, i'm inclined to agree with Pong/soul society because I think they are right about the world falling apart. Losing everybody trumps losing some people.


But from the Qunicies perspective I understand the desire to help people if you can do it. They can sense reiatsu, get it from the world around them and apparently still can't tell. They have had discussions with soul society countless times. So the info has been brought the their attention.....


So either they believe what the soul reapers are saying and kill hollows anyway. (Which would make them........ insane.)

Or they disagree with the very thing that soul society is telling them and thus don't recognize them as an authority on the subject. (Almost like global warming.)


I'm working under the assumption that they weren't crazy. If they are then that's.... different.

[The Transient Guest]

If that is so, then that's all he had to say.

I just want to point out who HE is in this case. I mean, you started the analogy war and I simply responded in kind.


Besides, I think what really matters is the as of right now unknown Quincy side to the whole "blow up the everything" discussion.

[The Drunkard Kid]

IIRC, Ishida said that the Quincies were kinda driven mad with rage over lost friends/families/companions to listen to Soul Society about sparing the monsters that ate their souls. Ishida himself thinks that Soul Society was in the right to destroy them, IIRC.

OTOH, considering that the head of Soul Society's science wing is currently Mayuri, I dunno that I'd listen to a word he says on general principle.

[burninganimefan357]

IIRC, Ishida said that the Quincies were kinda driven mad with rage over lost friends/families/companions to listen to Soul Society about sparing the monsters that ate their souls. Ishida himself thinks that Soul Society was in the right to destroy them, IIRC.

OTOH, considering that the head of Soul Society's science wing is currently Mayuri, I dunno that I'd listen to a word he says on general principle.

Mayuri was only released from prison 100 years ago. The Quincy massacre happened 200 years ago. Mayuri would not have been in charge when that happened.

[Hazard]

Personally while I can see that the Shinigami were right, I can understand the Quincy.

I mean, just about every 'regular' Shinigami we have seen in the real world has been almost useless. It doesn't really help that Chad pretty much took on the entire eleventh division save for the four strongest and won. Seriously, mook shinigami suck.

So for the Quincy what the Shinigami are saying would have been pretty much the equivalent of "Don't kill the giant monster killing people. Wait, until our totally ineffectual officers arrive. World ends otherwise."

I imagine they stopped listening at 'arrive' or probably 'ineffectual'. That's not even counting the fact that Hollows are bound to attack them. Sure they get their reiatsu from the environment, but they are still more spiritually aware than the average human. So it changes from, "don't fight the giant monster killing people" to "Don't kill the monster trying to kill you."

So yeah, credit to Kubo on a believable conflict. Not that there are unbelievable conflicts, because, really, people can go to war over the silliest things, but it is still nice.