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  1. #3346
    Senior Member Fast's Avatar
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    It would be nice if Ayon got to crush this guy but I'm pretty sure Quincy Captain Guy will beat it again next chapter (maybe even one-shot it)

  2. #3347
    About that, I lied. The Transient Guest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast View Post
    It would be nice if Ayon got to crush this guy but I'm pretty sure Quincy Captain Guy will beat it again next chapter (maybe even one-shot it)
    I was actually thinking about that, having him one shot the thing is going to draw comparisons to Old Man Genocide's power level.
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  3. #3348
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotech Master View Post
    So when Kubo made the Spanish names for all the Arrancar stuff, he used some clever double meanings where you had the Spanish word, and then you had the Kanji needed to spell the Spanish word, which would means something else (Ex: Espada: Spanish for Sword, Japanese for Ten Blades).
    I don't think the kanji name actually tries to match pronunciations with the katakana or the foreign term. For instance, Vandenreich. The kanji is 見えざる帝国, the katakana is ヴァンデンライヒ. If you run both of those through romaji.org, you get

    kanji = 見えざる帝国 = mie zaru teikoku
    kana = ヴァンデンライヒ = vandenraihi

    So it's not that Kubo is carefully choosing kanji for matching pronunciations. He picks a descriptive name in kanji, then uses the kana to spell out a totally different pronunciation that approximates a cool-sounding foreign term with similar meaning. (Or the opposite order: pick a cool foreign term, then pick a more descriptive kanji name. Kinda like a subtitle for Japanese readers, except it's the "main" name, while the kana pronunciation is written smaller on the side.)
    Last edited by MKTerra; 05-09-2012 at 11:44 PM.
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  4. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post

    I like that Ichigo isn't using his bankai straight off the bat here.
    I really hope he will not need it to win here. After all the power ups he should be able to handle even powerful opponents without his Bankai and save the Bankai for the big bad.

    I wonder why Ichigo`s reiatsu has no real physical impact. We know that his reiatsu is insanely high, even Unohana was amazed how powerful he is. The only persons who are on his level of raw power (I am not talking about skill) are probably Kenpachi, Yamamoto and pre-butterfly Aizen (butterfly aizen is more powerful than normal Ichigo). We have seen that Yamamoto`s unleashed reiatsu made a lieutenant faint, pre-butterfly Aizen`s reiatsu forced Grimmjow to kneel and Kenpachi`s reiatsu has also a physical impact and makes him invulnerable to hits from opponents with less reiatsu. I think even a normal captain`s unleashed reiatsu has some physical impact. But as far as I can recall Ichigos reiatsu never influenced an opponent, even in his Vizard form.

    I was also thinking about his bankai. Even if we assume that a flash step specialist like Yourichi is better at flash steps than baseline Ichigo due to experience and skill, his bankai schould more than level the field, because his bankai increases his overall speed. A flesh step is a foot technique, which enables you to move fast from one point to another, but has no influence on the speed of your body. The usual technique is that you move fast and suddenly appear close to the opponent, the rest of your action (like stabbing) is not influenced by how good your flash step is. But Ichigos bankai goes further, it increases the speed of his whole body, as we have seen by blocking Byakuya`s bankai with his sword. So Ichigo bakai enables him to to strike at super speed and kick an superspeed, headbutt at superspeed :) etc. and increases his reaction time etc. This means even if a opponent has superior flash step skill (or sonido or whatever the quincies use) and appears via flesh step suddenly in front of bankai Ichigo, he still should be able to react, i.e. block the effect or doge or whatever.
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  5. #3350
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast View Post
    It would be nice if Ayon got to crush this guy but I'm pretty sure Quincy Captain Guy will beat it again next chapter (maybe even one-shot it)
    OTOH, Ayon just did more damage by punching the guy than Ichigo did by chopping at his neck with GT.
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  6. #3351
    The Could-Have-Been King Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    Aww yeah! Look who is up a ready to go! Kick the quincy bastard's ass you horrible abomanation you!

    I like that Ichigo isn't using his bankai straight off the bat here.

    EDIT: I also think that this chapter does a good job of showing how the quincy will be dangerous as opponents.
    Agreed, this is a pretty good fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by kane View Post
    I was also thinking about his bankai. Even if we assume that a flash step specialist like Yourichi is better at flash steps than baseline Ichigo due to experience and skill, his bankai schould more than level the field, because his bankai increases his overall speed. A flesh step is a foot technique, which enables you to move fast from one point to another, but has no influence on the speed of your body. The usual technique is that you move fast and suddenly appear close to the opponent, the rest of your action (like stabbing) is not influenced by how good your flash step is.
    Actually, it totally is. At least for the better shunpo users. Yoruichi and Soifon have been shown to throw and react to attacks in mid-shunpo, and when Byakuya first showed up he moved over to Ichigo, drew his sword, cut Ichigo's swords in half, and then moved back to his original position holding the broken half of Ichigos blade and at some point resheated his sword, all before Ichigo and Renji could even see him move.

    Then he drew his sword, stabbed Ichigo twice, and resheated his sword. Again without anyone involved seeing it happen.
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  7. #3352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Agreed, this is a pretty good fight.



    Actually, it totally is. At least for the better shunpo users. Yoruichi and Soifon have been shown to throw and react to attacks in mid-shunpo, and when Byakuya first showed up he moved over to Ichigo, drew his sword, cut Ichigo's swords in half, and then moved back to his original position holding the broken half of Ichigos blade and at some point resheated his sword, all before Ichigo and Renji could even see him move.

    Then he drew his sword, stabbed Ichigo twice, and resheated his sword. Again without anyone involved seeing it happen.
    I do not think that this is related to flesh step speed, which is explicitly stated to be a foot technique. Every shinigami seems to some degree be faster, stronger and more durable than a normal human, and some are simply faster, stronger and more durable than others. Lets say we have two shinigami, who are equally good at flesh steps, but one of them throws a slower punch than the other. Both flesh step from one point to another and hit a target with their first. Both arrive at the same time at the another point but the one with the faster punch hits first, because his body, here expecially his arm is faster.

    And in the first Byakuya vs. Ichigo fight no one was able to see the move because Byakuya was overall far more powerful than them. He could have probably casually walk over to Ichigo and punch him in the face without anyone noticing the punch, because his body was overall far more faster, which would be not connected to his flash step speed.

    Do you have scans for Yoruichi and Soifon throwing and reacting to attacks in mid-shunpo
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  8. #3353

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    Yeah, at the time of his first meeting with Byakuya, I can't remember Ichigo displaying any super speed at all to that point. As for Renji, I dunno if we saw his reaction to Byakuya's sword breaking trick. Still, even though he has next to nothing in terms of speed feats even now (to my recollection), he was able to block Byakuya's shunpo strikes when they fought on the grounds that he knew where Byakuya was going to aim, suggesting that at least some of his blitz tricks are pre-targeted/programmed strikes that he can't actively control after he starts it due to being faster than even he can perceive (like the Kuzu Ryu Sen from Rurouni Kenshin, wherein Kenshin can't even tell that if missed his target with until after he's finished).

    All in all, a far cry from what Ichigo was pulling out during their bankai duel, where he was appearing out of nowhere to hold his blade against Byakuya's throat, or dodging around Byakuya's fastest guided attacks so fast he was appearing to be in multiple places at once, then slapping aside a bunch of those blades at like he was a machine gun, followed by his Vizard side hitting Byakuya with a Getsuga Tenshou from 2 (3?) different directions so that they converged on him simultaneously. It's a pity that Ichigo never did anything even remotely as impressive as all that stuff ever again, making his bankai form functionally useless except for the moderately more powerful (yet somehow not able to kill Byakuya from a double-triple simultaneous blast) Getsuga Tenshou.
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  9. #3354
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Yeah, at the time of his first meeting with Byakuya, I can't remember Ichigo displaying any super speed at all to that point. As for Renji, I dunno if we saw his reaction to Byakuya's sword breaking trick. Still, even though he has next to nothing in terms of speed feats even now (to my recollection), he was able to block Byakuya's shunpo strikes when they fought on the grounds that he knew where Byakuya was going to aim, suggesting that at least some of his blitz tricks are pre-targeted/programmed strikes that he can't actively control after he starts it due to being faster than even he can perceive (like the Kuzu Ryu Sen from Rurouni Kenshin, wherein Kenshin can't even tell that if missed his target with until after he's finished).

    All in all, a far cry from what Ichigo was pulling out during their bankai duel, where he was appearing out of nowhere to hold his blade against Byakuya's throat, or dodging around Byakuya's fastest guided attacks so fast he was appearing to be in multiple places at once, then slapping aside a bunch of those blades at like he was a machine gun, followed by his Vizard side hitting Byakuya with a Getsuga Tenshou from 2 (3?) different directions so that they converged on him simultaneously. It's a pity that Ichigo never did anything even remotely as impressive as all that stuff ever again, making his bankai form functionally useless except for the moderately more powerful (yet somehow not able to kill Byakuya from a double-triple simultaneous blast) Getsuga Tenshou.
    In Grimmjow vs Ichigo round 1 he tried to use that speed but Grimmjow wasn't having that.

    edit Srry I thought you meant after his fight with Byakuya.

  10. #3355
    Blind Resolve Hazard's Avatar
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    Ichigo was casually reacting to Ishida's arrows in very early chapters.

    He was also specifically commenting on how slowly Renji was moving after awakening more power, and Renji outright says it is Ichigo who had gotten faster. To add to this, Renji was casually outspeeding Ichigo before this.

    This all happens before Byakuya blitzes him.

  11. #3356
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    I think Kubo wrote himself in a corner with that. Ichigo blitzing his opponents at the beginning of his fights would get boring very fast, so his super speed is mostly forgotten. The thing is I would not have such a big problem, if an opponent on the level of Aizen or Stark would be faster than bankai Ichigo, because he is still very young. But despite all his power ups since he gained his bankai he is still not able to blitz opponents, who are below the top opponents like the ones mentioned above. The first time he used his bankai he was blitzing Byakuya, who is not a top 3 captain, but still fast and powerful. If not for showing off at the beginning of the fight and his bones being unable to withstand the stress, he would have won. Since then the problem with the stress did not reappear and his power and experience grew significantly. But still with the exception of his last fight with butterfly-Aizen I cannot remember him blitzing an opponent.
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  12. #3357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Ichigo was casually reacting to Ishida's arrows in very early chapters.

    He was also specifically commenting on how slowly Renji was moving after awakening more power, and Renji outright says it is Ichigo who had gotten faster. To add to this, Renji was casually outspeeding Ichigo before this.

    This all happens before Byakuya blitzes him.
    The one arrow that Ichigo reacted to (which, admittedly, was fired at his back with no forewarning) was accidentally fired by an exhausted Ishida whose finger slipped off the ring he used to use to draw his bow, after he got so weak that he was having trouble killing individual hollows with one shot, so that feat probably should have an asterix next to it since a fresh Uryuu had been sniping Hollows from across town about as fast as it took Rukia and Ichigo to even start to detect them. (Admittedly, I had forgotten all about that arrow feat till now).

    As for blitzing Renji, I'm kinda at a loss to any clean speed feats for Renji pre-timeskip. Dude didn't even use Shunpo in the manga till recently (if then), IIRC, and was at 20% power when he faced Ichigo that first time, and didn't blitz Ichigo so much as just overwhelm him with skill and experience, then bust out his shikai. Once Ichigo's aura flared, he did say that Renji's movements became really slow, but he was kinda giggling from the power at the time, while Renji got hit the first time because he was busy gawking at the spiritual power. And even though Renji said that Ichigo got faster, he was still capable of blocking Ichigo's next shot (for all the good it did him, since it still sent him flying). And then Byakuya took the blade off of Ichigo's Zanpakuto while Ichigo was swinging to finish Renji off and they both weren't even looking in his direction, and Ichigo took a moment to look at his blade before checking over to where Byakuya was standing.

    The subsequent chest-shank was done in full view of Ichigo, however, but Byakuya only went from point A to B in a flash (as opposed to appearing not to move and a wound just appearing on Ichigo, similar to how the sword feat is normally presented), though that might just be a style choice on Byakuya's part. IIRC though, that was the same attack that Renji was able to block specifically because he was so used to Byakuya's fighting style that he knew where the slash was coming from, even though he was much slower than Byakuya.

    Also, Ishida's intro arc was surprisingly long. I had forgotten that Chad's and Orihime's powers awakened during that bit.
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  13. #3358
    Veteran Member Holy Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    I like that Ichigo isn't using his bankai straight off the bat here.
    Ditto.

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  14. #3359
    Swedish Shinigami Dark Soul # 7's Avatar
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    A bit late but whatever.

    In the battle against the fullbringers shouldn't the captain and vice-captains that appeared have had their limiters on? That is to say the seals that keeps them from using more than 20% of their full power.

  15. #3360
    Senior Member Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    A bit late but whatever.

    In the battle against the fullbringers shouldn't the captain and vice-captains that appeared have had their limiters on? That is to say the seals that keeps them from using more than 20% of their full power.
    I thought that the first time Hitsugaya needed to break it they decided it wasn't worth putting them on for missions that involved these guys going down to kill powerful enemies.

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