Thoughts on Van Lente's DEAD Avengers

**Make Mine Mar-Vell** · 09-03-2010, 05:09 PM

While reading Van Lente's (Marvel Zombies) interviews on this up coming series, I thought to myself (as any Captain Marvel fan would at this point after being whored out and lied to for so long), here we go again, cashing in on us, but tell me, from a true Mar-Vell fan point of view and seeing the potential of a story bringing the character back more than just because we want him back. I did find some things promising, but I don't know if I am being too optimistic.

(I'm not saying Van Lente hinted at bringing him back, I am making my own observation and asking because it would be TOO obvious to keep him back this time as they have done this in the past every time a Mar-Vell thing starts to garner attention...I realize this may be a bit much, but I'm asking because we have been lied to as a loyal Marvel reader and just want an outside objective point of view who is at least open to the idea, to tell me if we are getting our hopes up again.)

For example, in the interview, Van Lente mentions CM as being different from the others in the lineup in that he died honorably whereas the others did not and that Mar-Vell is seren about it (Wha? What makes dying in a bed more honorable than not? All respect to loved ones lost even my own, but does it matter HOW we go? We all go these are just shells... )....Am I reading into this too much to consider it a possibility that CM finds that his serenity is undeserved?

I mean he is "one with the universe", maybe he realizes that he's become something bigger, and when he takes a look around at what's going on in the MU and the world at large, he realizes it needs him more than ever.

Like perhaps, he realizes he has unfinished business? (Keep in mind these are my questions, not saying Van Lente is saying that, I am trying to read into it deliberately, but not so much as a fan, moreso as "they've already done this"...is this a polite way of "Good try, kids, but we're not doing it no matter how much you want- yadda yadda yadda" condascending...etc)

Is this another joke or do you think this could be it?

I mean that is a lot of cover appearances in what the last 3 years?
Why don't they just do it?

It may not be how I would do it (which I have a story but I don't work there so it doesn't matter) but I've always maintained that it isn't so much how, it's what they do when he gets here.

Any other discussion on this book I'll gladly have but I will start here.
I never had a problem with Swordsman. Vision.

You know, like him or not, you gotta admit that's pretty marketable for a "dead" guy.

How many covers has this guy been on in the last couple years? How many action figures? Isn't he slated to be in a kids cartoon show this or next year?

Anyway, during the Chaos War, apparently there is a foe that only the "dead" avengers can fight, is this just another one off appearance or due to Mar-Vell's death being different, is there hope that we might be dismissing this as more passification to the Revolution or whatever you want to call it?

In other words, is there hope Mar-Vell slips through here...given that there is another Mar-Vell right now in Thanos Imperative, and aren't these events linked?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=27841
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/fred...rs-100816.html
Here's another one...

**Cthulhudrew** · 09-03-2010, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Make Mine Mar-Vell

For example, in the interview, Van Lente mentions CM as being different from the others in the lineup in that he died honorably whereas the others did not and that Mar-Vell is seren about it (Wha? What makes dying in a bed more honorable than not? )....Am I reading into this too much to consider it a possibility that CM finds that his serenity is undeserved?

Where did he say that? All I see is Van Lente saying this:

Originally Posted by Van Lente

He's an interesting case. He's the only one of this bunch who died non-violently, in bed, of cancer. Plus, he has "cosmic awareness" that makes him a more serene type to begin with. However, he is the most heroic hero of this bunch — he has an innate nobility that makes helping others in need second nature to him. So there's some conflict there.

Nothing about his death being any more or less "honorable" than the others.

In any event, personally, I'd say that his facing and accepting death the way he did certainly puts him on a level above the others, who did die violently and without any real chance to achieve any kind of acceptance.

**Make Mine Mar-Vell** · 09-03-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew

Where did he say that? All I see is Van Lente saying this:

Nothing about his death being any more or less "honorable" than the others.

In any event, personally, I'd say that his facing and accepting death the way he did certainly puts him on a level above the others, who did die violently and without any real chance to achieve any kind of acceptance.

I didn't say he did. I'M asking that question based on reading about the comic, because they already touched on that in Cosmic Powers Unlimited #6 after he was seen in Silver Surfer #63 stranded powerless in some sort of Army of darkness type of world.

In other words, is this an attempt to again silence the Mar-Vell contingency? It obviously doesn't work.

Maybe he looks at the MU and decides he's not happy with what is going on. etc.

They've already done that (the whole I'm okay, I surrender thing that is not the character's creedo) numerous times, why again? I'm just saying is it possible this could be the time they take the not so obvious route.

Which btw could have easily been a refusal to be a part of Thanos' scheme, and enlightened him that he sets himself up for failure.

Let me edit the top post so it's more clear.

**Monty_Cristo** · 09-03-2010, 05:57 PM

i would only want Swordsman, Vision, and Rita Demara back.

**Monty_Cristo** · 09-03-2010, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Make Mine Mar-Vell

I didn't say he did. I'M asking that question based on reading about the comic, because they already touched on that in Cosmic Powers Unlimited #6 after he was seen in Silver Surfer #63 stranded powerless in some sort of Army of darkness type of world.

In other words, is this an attempt to again silence the Mar-Vell contingency? It obviously doesn't work.

Maybe he looks at the MU and decides he's not happy with what is going on. etc.

They've already done that (the whole I'm okay, I surrender thing that is not the character's creedo) numerous times, why again? I'm just saying is it possible this could be the time they take the not so obvious route.

Which btw could have easily been a refusal to be a part of Thanos' scheme, and enlightened him that he sets himself up for failure.

Let me edit the top post so it's more clear.

wtf are you talking about?

**Cthulhudrew** · 09-03-2010, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Make Mine Mar-Vell

I didn't say he did.

You said Van Lente said that Mar-Vell's death was "more honorable" than the others, and questioned why his death would be more honorable. I pointed out that Van Lente never said that, and nevertheless provided a reason as to why his death might have been more honorable in spite of your misquote.

**The Avenging One** · 09-03-2010, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Monty_Cristo

i would only want Swordsman, Vision, and Rita Demara back.

I agree with you on Rita. I have fond memories of GOTG and hated how they killed her off.

**Monty_Cristo** · 09-03-2010, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew

You said Van Lente said that Mar-Vell's death was "more honorable" than the others, and questioned why his death would be more honorable. I pointed out that Van Lente never said that, and nevertheless provided a reason as to why his death might have been more honorable in spite of your misquote.

Originally Posted by Make Mine Mar-Vell

For example, in the interview, Van Lente mentions CM as being different from the others in the lineup in that he died honorably whereas the others did not and that Mar-Vell is seren about it (Wha? What makes dying in a bed more honorable than not? All respect to loved ones lost even my own, but does it matter HOW we go? We all go these are just shells... )....Am I reading into this too much to consider it a possibility that CM finds that his serenity is undeserved?

just to back Cthulhudrew up^

**Cthulhudrew** · 09-03-2010, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Avenging One

I agree with you on Rita. I have fond memories of GOTG and hated how they killed her off.

Yellowjacket coming back would be cool, since her story always felt like it was just cut off prematurely (plus, no one's using the costume or name currently); still kind of interested to see what Kurt Busiek would have done with the character in TBolts had she been around (though it would likely have changed the progress of that story considerably, and I love Songbird, so have no regrets that he couldn't use Rita.)

Swordsman was never interesting enough as a character, to me, either power wise or personality wise. It's hard enough to buy into a hero like the Black Knight who uses a sword non-lethally on opponents, but to have multiple heroes with the same ability just is kind of blah. I'd rather have Nicieza's Swordsman/Strucker back.

Vision 1.0 really needs to come back already. I don't even see why he should be a part of this lineup, or why he hasn't already been recreated by his supposed friends in the Avengers...

**Monty_Cristo** · 09-03-2010, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew

Yellowjacket coming back would be cool, since her story always felt like it was just cut off prematurely (plus, no one's using the costume or name currently); still kind of interested to see what Kurt Busiek would have done with the character in TBolts had she been around (though it would likely have changed the progress of that story considerably, and I love Songbird, so have no regrets that he couldn't use Rita.)

Swordsman was never interesting enough as a character, to me, either power wise or personality wise. It's hard enough to buy into a hero like the Black Knight who uses a sword non-lethally on opponents, but to have multiple heroes with the same ability just is kind of blah. I'd rather have Nicieza's Swordsman/Strucker back.

Vision 1.0 really needs to come back already. I don't even see why he should be a part of this lineup, or why he hasn't already been recreated by his supposed friends in the Avengers...

Andreas was cool too. i had liked him just as one-half of Fenris. but it was good to see him grow as a solo act; even if his death was somewhat humiliating.

**JessieMidnight** · 09-03-2010, 07:25 PM

As cool as it could be to see the original Captain Marvel back, I really don't think he should be brought back. I don't think Marvel would know what to do with him if they brought him back, and I think they would handle him poorly.

I also don't see how the original Vision is a member of this. He was just a robot. He should have just been downloaded into a new copy, because he can't really die. I always thought that the Avengers could/would just rebuild him.

**StoneGold** · 09-03-2010, 07:27 PM

Anyone want to put odds on how many are dead again by the end of the story? I don't see more than one surviving again.

**JessieMidnight** · 09-03-2010, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by StoneGold

Anyone want to put odds on how many are dead again by the end of the story? I don't see more than one surviving again.

I agree with you. I really don't see any of them actually surviving after this event. If any do, it'll probably just be one, maybe two characters though. I guess you really never know though, but I don't think all these characters are coming back.